china/taiwan news


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Max Demian

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(1) All your comments since the thread was reopened (page 26) haven't mentioned anything about history, or made any argument whatsoever. If you want to present your "theory" now, go ahead, but don't make things up.

(2) Which history? The history where both ROC and the PRC still claim all of China? The history where most nations recognise the province of Taiwan as part of China?
I see that you are pretty new to this forum. I posted articles about this several times in this thread before. This article is a good start:
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I don't need to know about physics to talk about it, but I should know about it to have an informed opinion. The same applies here: yes, you need to have lived in China; yes, you need to have lived in the province of Taiwan (tourism is not living); and yes, it would be better if you knew how to speak Chinese. You are in your right to toss your ignorant position around, but at least don't pretend it isn't cemented on ignorance and lack of knowledge.
You remind me of a coal miner who thinks he is an expert in mineralogy.

You presume to know too much about me, but we are total strangers. Show some common courtesy. You make us Europeans look bad with your behaviour.

If you must know, I stayed in Taiwan for work.

By the way, in another post you mentioned how your opinion changed after you visited Taiwan. So your opinion about China comes from one of the most propagandized places of the world against China? You might as well go to Iran and ask them their opinion about America, maybe they will change your mind too. Having an objective and informed opinion is about deeply knowing both sides of the coin – which you clearly don't.
My experience of Chinese culture and psyche is more profound than you think. I’m well familiar with both sides of the coin, from a humane and personal account. Again, you presume too much.
 

BrightFuture

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You remind me of a coal miner who thinks he is an expert in mineralogy.
The pot calling the kettle black.

You make us Europeans look bad with your behaviour.
Europeans don't need me to look bad, their imperialism, racism, white supremacism, hubris, hypocrisy, dishonesty, and lies already make them look bad enough (more than I ever could). Not to mention their history :).

My experience of Chinese culture and psyche is more profound than you think. I’m well familiar with both sides of the coin, from a humane and personal account. Again, you presume too much.
Sure, buddy. Your expertise and knowledge shows.
 
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Gatekeeper

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This is a great read. Particularly in view nowadays, of the hypocritical western complaints about China's "aggressive" fly over past the median line etc. All the time US and Taiwan was flying deep inside China's territory without a whimper from the MSM.

How a Chinese SA-2 shot down a Taiwanese RB-57D and scored the first ever SAM-Kill
Dario Leone
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How a Chinese SA-2 shot down a Taiwanese RB-57D and scored the first ever SAM-Kill
Dario Leone
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60 Years Ago Today, the Surface-To-Air Missile scored the first ever successful shoot-down of an aircraft


The first V-750 lifted off at 12:04hrs, soon followed by two more. About 40 seconds later, as the RB-57D was at a distance of 29-30km, the first of them scored a hit: the target changed course and began rapidly losing altitude.

rest of the article:
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Gatekeeper

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The @OppositeDay said he/she is a Chinese citizen and then you questioned his nationality on the grounds of his opinion not-being mainstream CCP propaganda? What next, if he shows you his birth certificate you will label him Hanjian? Why shouldn't he be entitled to a personal perspective on the matter?
You see that's your brainwashing coming through right there in your first sentence. Talk about people living in glass houses.

You with your pre-disposed prejudice and bigotry have naturally assumed I questioned his nationality on the grounds of "not being mainstream CCP propaganda" lol. That's pretty ingrain prejudice showing for all to see.

Just to be clear, I question his nationality on the grounds of being Chinese. Period moving more and nothing less. If you even bother to read my post a few post earlier, you would have noticed I was praising Ma for being and celebrating his Chineseness and for celebrating double 10 national day.

But noooo! You, through your high and mighty high horse and I assumed western education decided that I question his nationality because his "not being mainstream CCP propaganda.

Enjoy your stay in Portugal. I know in Porto there are some wicked ports. Don't get too drunk on those. It is really addict with Nata.
 

Gatekeeper

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If Taiwan cedes military bases on the East coast, what would be the long term result?

With a military foothold already on Taiwan, it would be obvious that Taiwan would have to adopt a neutral or pro China posture. That is good enough.

And in the long run, with a wealthy developed China, it wouldn't make any sense for Taiwan to remain independent, from a cultural, economic, military, political perspective.
I see what you're saying. And it maybe an attractive option to some people. But it is not a permanent solution. All you're doing is kicking the can down the road.

After what happened to China, first from Japan, and now the West. It is the sovereignty and integrity of the nation at stake. Anything less than a return of sovereignty is unacceptable in my view.
 

Gatekeeper

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A peaceful resolution will certainly requires a declaration of neutrality to be written into the Taiwanese constitution. Unlike Japan, which is a semi-feudal semi-colonial fake democracy with fake rule of law, Taiwan is actually a real democracy. Without the threat of forced reunification,the public Taiwan won't have the motivation to break the neutrality clauses and risking economic sanctions or even a war just to hold joint exercises or share intelligence with the Americans.
It's a sovereign issue. China is not China without Taiwan. And let's face reality here. If it wasn't for US. Taiwan would have reunited with the motherland long time ago. So after all this time, all the suffering and humiliation the Chinese have to endure, we are still being dictated to by a foreign power many miles away.

I feel any Chinese who thinks that way is basically sticking their fingers up to those who fought and brought China to where it is today. This may I add includes KMT Chinese who fought the Japanese bravely. Or my uncle and aunty who died fighting the Japanese.

This is why I questioned your Chineseness. It is incomprehensible for me to see any Chinese would give up this sovereign territory without a fight. Other fringe territory can be negotiated. But thuscus the REAL red line!
 

weig2000

Junior Member
If the US considers Taiwan critical to its interests and is willing to forego the cash its companies are making in China, then the logical move for them is to end strategic ambiguity over Taiwan. That means full decoupling and drawing a MAD line over Taiwan.

That would put the PRC in a pretty tight spot. The ball is in their court. 300 warheads against 5000 and the world’s most formidable ABMD shield against them. Taiwan starting to move towards independence. What do they do?
If the US (and the majority of American people - it's important since you're talking about MAD here, not some military intervention in a third-world country) believes it is worthwhile to go MAD for an island thousands of miles away from its homeland, which the vast majority of the countries in the world and UN recognize as legally part of China, including the US, think about how strong China and Chinese people feel about Taiwan and how far it would go to defend its sovereignty and territory?

I can tell you: a million times more, to start with.

Maybe this is a bit too hypothetical and it's hard to test it in reality until it happens. Let's look at some track records.

In 1950, barely a year after the founding of the People's Republic, China entered Korea War to fight against the US, because its security and territory were under threat. At the time, China was a poor agrarian country against the world's most powerful military machine and the only country with nuclear weapon then. The result: China fought to repel the US-led military to the 38th parallel. Subsequently, during the Vietnam War, the US made sure it did not cross the 17th parallel, the dividing line between North and South Vietnam for fear of Chinese intervention.

In 1969, China and the USSR had a serious border conflict. At the time, the USSR had overwhelming military advantage over China, including nuclear weapon. In fact, the USSR army tank groups were only hundreds of miles from Beijing. Did you remember that China backed off?

In 1979, a few years after China emerged out of the Cultural Revolution, China initiated a "punishment" war against the Vietnam due to latter's aggressive behaviors in Southeast Asia particularly its invasion of Cambodia. Mind you, at the time, Vietnam was in a military alliance with the USSR, the superpower of the day. Did the USSR entered the war against China? Nevertheless, China was prepared for the eventuality that didn't occur.

China will go to thermal nuclear with any country that threatens to go nuclear against its core interest, which includes Taiwan. No, I didn't say this here first. In 1995, General Zhu Chengwu, the grandson of the late Marshall Zhu De (one of the founding generals of the PLA, commander-in-chief of PLA during the revolutionary years) said that the US would not sacrifice Los Angles for Taiwan while China would sacrifice all the Chinese cities east of Xi'an for Taiwan. China didn't have many nuclear warheads that could reach the US at the times, and it's been very rare that China threatens with nuclear war with any country for anything - after all China has a no-first-use nuclear policy. This just demonstrates the will of China to defend its sovereignty on Taiwan.

How about the 300 vs 5000 warheads?

First of all, are 300 enough to destroy a country or at least the majority of the population centers? Do we even know China "only" has 300? We know even Pakistan or India has over 100. We're assuming the US would entertain such an exchange. Taiwan to China and US is not Europe to USSR and the US during the Cold War. The relationships are fundamentally different. I believe you're smart enough to understand this.

Second, that China has only 300 is not because it does not have the technical know-how, manpower, industrial or financial resources to build more. It is based on its assessment of the strategic situation and self-restraint. Should that assessment change, the number can be drastically increased in relatively short period of time. The world should take comfort that China is very rational country led by rational people. But the restraint and rationality should not be taken as weakness.

Let's take another 10,000 steps back. Let's say China took military action to land on Taiwan and failed (highly unlikely) or that for some unknown or unknowable reasons that China decided not to take immediate military action should Taiwan declare independence or the US abolishes its ambiguous Taiwan policy (there has no ambiguity from China's perspective, China always prepares for external intervention). It can always take some times and produce more weapons, conventional or non-conventional, to come back to fight for Taiwan, again and again. Or you believe China would be "deterred" to accept Taiwan's independence?

You should calm down and back off on Taiwan issue, not to push to the point of threatening MAD. You questioned why a lot of people here care about a far away island. That's ironical because a lot of people here have very close relationships with China/Taiwan, while you're just an outsider (Ok, you visited Taiwan once). Yet why are you so bothered with Taiwan's separation from China? Think in another way, if you as a European, cares so much about keeping Taiwan separate from China, how much more do the Chinese or people who have much close links with China including nationality, family & friends, ethnicity, culture care about Taiwan NOT separating from China?
 

Gatekeeper

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A PhD or a bachelors/masters in another culture pales in effect on the educational and cultural imprinting in the formative years of a person's life in his home country.
This is the same condescending BS that Mr T come out with when he says about education in Hong Kong don't teach people to critically analyse.

So Chinese education is all about brain washing people. And these brainwashed poor souls are not capable of escaping from their early years of brainwashing. But of course the West is above all that. And judging by the Trump cult followers...... mmm. It me guess.
 

Gatekeeper

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Generally, Chinese nationals who left China to live in the west becomes intensely patriotic after a few years after witnessing all the double standards first hand. I've spoken to numerous friends from Uni who were Chinese international students who went to the torch relay protection thing in 2008 and they all tell me that was the one time that they sang March of the Volunteers with feeling.
He takes a few Chinese people he knows, and he extrapolate from that and came up with the wrong conclusion. Whereas he thinks we are not just single Chinese person living in isolation.

Not knowing we belongs to local Chinese associations where hundreds and thousands Chinese come together once a week. All options are noted by the like of us that runs the association's. In addition, we belong to a wider national association of our host country. So as can be seen, we have our fingers on the pulse.

And he tries to tell us from the few Chinese friends he has! Gee. Give me a break.
 

Gatekeeper

Major
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And I know Chinese that work in the UN, have much more preparation than a few masters or PhDs, and think Taiwan is a Chinese province that should be unified. Your anecdotal evidence means shit and isn't representative of anything. Thousands of Chinese that are well educated and have studied in the West think Taiwan is a Chinese province that should be reunited, most Chinese people think like this – in fact. If you want to keep deluding yourself and trying to use fallacies of authority like: "I know someone with a PhD and he thinks this, so he must be right because he has a PhD" then go ahead, keep living in your fantasy.

By the way, I was born and raised in the West and I'm not even ethnically Chinese. Surprised? I live in China, know about the bullshit of the West, and I'm tired of it.
More power to you. You have my upmost respect!
 
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