China Flanker Thread II

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Captain
Just want to mention that for the Chinese the Hainan Island incident was like hitting the jackpot on Christmas Day while high on meth.

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If you check here, because there was a miscommunication between the flight crew and the signals intercept staff on the EP-3, the signals intercept staff did not properly dispose of their information until it was way too late. Subsequently, MSS and their related agencies managed to dig up at least some level of data over the cleared hard drives and it's believed that subsequently they used that information to achieve a high level of penetration against American military networks.

As with regards to the pilot's maneuver, the EP-3 incident occurred because Chinese pilots were inadequately trained and did not understand how close airflows interact, so that while the J-8 pilot thought that he had a clear berth of the EP-3, the slipstreams drew him into the engines.

Presumably, after that little incident, the US upgraded its procedures for data destruction to prevent a repeat of that particular compromise, and the Chinese changed their pilot training so that their pilots have enough understanding of aerodynamics to avoid getting slipstreamed.

In this sort of context, this kind of aggressive maneuvering is probably scarier for the United States than the Chinese. While the chance of a repeat compromise like in the EP-3 incident is effectively nil, it is still a reminder of how badly the last time things turned out, and while the J-11 pilot definitely has a good chance of dying, it's one guy in a fighter against a plane full of air crew, signals intelligence specialists, and classified intelligence. The US simply has more to lose, both intelligence-wise and in terms of personnel.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Ok gents, this is the Flanker thread, does anyone "know" if and how many sales there have been of the Su-35???

Lots of noise in the internet, no real references or news... so I would say, just wait and see. The Su-35 is a good aircraft, but does China need them or want them... I find the possibility getting lesser each day pass.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Lots of noise in the internet, no real references or news... so I would say, just wait and see. The Su-35 is a good aircraft, but does China need them or want them... I find the possibility getting lesser each day pass.

no doubt SU-35 is a very very good aircraft, much better than Indian SU-30MKI or Chinese SU-30 ... but It would be mad (technically)for China to buy those, unless it's a political or bargaining decision

I believe Chinese J-11B is as good or in some areas even better than SU-35 ... and J-16 is definitely would be better
 

Franklin

Captain
Why is the issue of SU-35 being discussed again ? The SU-35 and the Lada class submarines are off the table. China may buy the S-400 missile system. The only big ticket items that China is still buying from Russia these days is the Al-31, RD-93 and the D-30 jet engines. And the Mi-17 helicopters and some second hand Il-76 transport planes. No doubt that China is also buying other things from Russia such as spare parts for its Russian systems they have and things that the Chinese defense industry is unable to produce yet. But I think the days of China buying complete foreign weapons systems is more or less over and the Mi-17 and Il-76 is just a stop gap measure untill the Y-20 and Z-20 goes into production and service.
 
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tphuang

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no doubt SU-35 is a very very good aircraft, much better than Indian SU-30MKI or Chinese SU-30 ... but It would be mad (technically)for China to buy those, unless it's a political or bargaining decision

I believe Chinese J-11B is as good or in some areas even better than SU-35 ... and J-16 is definitely would be better

If China ever orders Su-35, it would be their desire for the 117S engine.

J-16 is more focused on it's attacking profiles like Su-30MKK, whereas Su-35 is more emphasized to air superiority. So kind of apples and oranges here.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
According to Yankee from CJDBY there are still roughly around 1000 J-7s in service (which came as a surprise to me). Retiring all of them might leave a "fighter gap". Some speculate that importing Su-35s might serve as a stop-gag measure before domestic 5th gen fighters and 4++ fighters are inducted in force.

Personally I still don't think that the deal will get through.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
If China ever orders Su-35, it would be their desire for the 117S engine.

J-16 is more focused on it's attacking profiles like Su-30MKK, whereas Su-35 is more emphasized to air superiority. So kind of apples and oranges here.

I just asked in the generic sense, I didn't know how many the Russians were buying, and or if anyone else had agreed to purchase any???? I certainly didn't intend to re-ignite the debate, just curious as I agree China's Flankers are very nice aircraft, and China is unlikely to purchase any Russian aircraft.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
there ya go, and the natural inclination of the aircraft being "threatened is to turn away from the threat, right into the path of the Flanker completing the maneuver. After the P-3, Hainon incident, there is no danger of anybody grading your airmanship very high for a long time, this just leaves a bad taste for any pilot, its like some idiot on sport bike on I-70, doing wheelies and stupid stuff during rush hour, and putting your "family" at risk. I've had the displeasure of having to ride through several displays of "stupid", NO THANK YOU! but I'm rather sure the Flanker performed as advertised, and it is a very fine airplane for the mission, fast, maneuverable, speed brake, lots of goodies to help you perform a "safe and effective" intercept, take the pictures you need, and ride shotgun till the other fella is tired of "sightseeing", that is the Flankers forte.

A good rule to spotting BS is to weigh the action/reaction against the words.

Fact 1) the P8 did not change course or cut its mission short.

That fact alone will give you a good idea of the real seriousness of the incident.

If the PLANAF pilot actually pulled any one of those manoeuvres as depicted in those GIFs, the P8 crew would have scrubbed the mission then and there to get away from the guy.

The fact that they did abosulted nothing is a good indication of just how dangerous or threaterning the PLANAF pilot's actions were in the eyes of the American aircrew. The rest is just political and media spin.
 

joshuatree

Captain
A good rule to spotting BS is to weigh the action/reaction against the words.

Fact 1) the P8 did not change course or cut its mission short.

That fact alone will give you a good idea of the real seriousness of the incident.

If the PLANAF pilot actually pulled any one of those manoeuvres as depicted in those GIFs, the P8 crew would have scrubbed the mission then and there to get away from the guy.

The fact that they did abosulted nothing is a good indication of just how dangerous or threaterning the PLANAF pilot's actions were in the eyes of the American aircrew. The rest is just political and media spin.

You make a good point. In the case of the RC-135, it too was flying in international space but bugged out into Swedish airspace when a Russian fighter was enroute to intercept. It definitely felt it was in danger there. Did they feel the Russians were willing to shoot down the RC-135?
 
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