China Flanker Thread II


siegecrossbow

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we don't have any pictures confirming it but we do have this article essentially confirming it, that J-10C, J-16 and JH-7/A will be sent

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If I am not mistaken this is the first international drill that the J-16 has participated in. I wonder if they (J-16 and J-10C) carried PL-15 training rounds for the occasion.

J-16 is probably the second closet plane PLAAF has to the Su-30MKI.
 

Bltizo

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If I am not mistaken this is the first international drill that the J-16 has participated in. I wonder if they (J-16 and J-10C) carried PL-15 training rounds for the occasion.

J-16 is probably the second closet plane PLAAF has to the Su-30MKI.
For the purposes of simulating certain missiles in DACT I wonder if you actually need to even carry training rounds of the missile type you are wanting to "launch".


In any case, having AESA equipped J-16 as well as J-10C would likely be useful for both sides. The PAF should have had exposure to J-10C's AESA before in the previous Shaheen exercise, but J-16's radar should be in quite a different level.
 

siegecrossbow

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For the purposes of simulating certain missiles in DACT I wonder if you actually need to even carry training rounds of the missile type you are wanting to "launch".


In any case, having AESA equipped J-16 as well as J-10C would likely be useful for both sides. The PAF should have had exposure to J-10C's AESA before in the previous Shaheen exercise, but J-16's radar should be in quite a different level.
It is needed to simulate the weight and aerodynamics of the missile. If you want the simulation to be realistic then you should probably carry them.
 

Bltizo

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It is needed to simulate the weight and aerodynamics of the missile. If you want the simulation to be realistic then you should probably carry them.
Captive air training missiles have their role in training, yes, however are CATMs necessary in DACT?


For example, if you had an aircraft doing DACT, does the actual notional weapons loadout of the aircraft have to be physically represented by an equal number of captive training missiles?
I've watched a number of DACT videos in the past, and from what I've seen it seems to be rare that for anymore than an ACMI pod and one or two CATMs (if that) are being observed carried for any one mission.


Which takes me back to the previous point -- is a training missile actually necessary to simulate an aircraft carrying said missile types, for purposes of DACT?

I can't help but feel like if it was necessary, we'd be seeing a lot more pictures of aircraft during DACT exercises loaded with more missiles.
 

siegecrossbow

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Captive air training missiles have their role in training, yes, however are CATMs necessary in DACT?


For example, if you had an aircraft doing DACT, does the actual notional weapons loadout of the aircraft have to be physically represented by an equal number of captive training missiles?
I've watched a number of DACT videos in the past, and from what I've seen it seems to be rare that for anymore than an ACMI pod and one or two CATMs (if that) are being observed carried for any one mission.


Which takes me back to the previous point -- is a training missile actually necessary to simulate an aircraft carrying said missile types, for purposes of DACT?

I can't help but feel like if it was necessary, we'd be seeing a lot more pictures of aircraft during DACT exercises loaded with more missiles.
For Falcon Strike 2019 China did equip the J-10 with PL10 and PL-8 training rounds.
 

Bltizo

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For Falcon Strike 2019 China did equip the J-10 with PL10 and PL-8 training rounds.
Yes, but does that mean they were only "firing" those missiles during DACT?

I.e. they were not also firing, say PL-12 or PL-15?
 

siegecrossbow

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Yes, but does that mean they were only "firing" those missiles during DACT?

I.e. they were not also firing, say PL-12 or PL-15?
I think they’ll be simulating BVRAAMs as well. None of the fighters at The first Falcon strike exercise carried any missiles but that didn’t stop them from simulating BVR combat. However, some military fans complained because this put the gripens, a light fighter, at an advantage when it flies without load.

Either way I think this is a good chance for PAF to develop tactics against a large, AESA equipped flanker given that India will update the radars and avionics on the Su-30s in the near future.
 

Bltizo

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I think they’ll be simulating BVRAAMs as well. None of the fighters at The first Falcon strike exercise carried any missiles but that didn’t stop them from simulating BVR combat. However, some military fans complained because this put the gripens, a light fighter, at an advantage when it flies without load.

Either way I think this is a good chance for PAF to develop tactics against a large, AESA equipped flanker given that India will update the radars and avionics on the Su-30s in the near future.
Well yeah, my previous question is asking whether simulating a certain kind of missile during DACT actually requires having a CATM of the given missile type to be carried, because you asked whether they will carry PL-15 training rounds during this exercise as well, making it seem like you believed they needed training Pl-15 to simulate it during DACT?

Based on this reply, it seems you also think that it might not be necessary to carry a CATM of a missile type to simulate it, yes?
 

Air Force Brat

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Well yeah, my previous question is asking whether simulating a certain kind of missile during DACT actually requires having a CATM of the given missile type to be carried, because you asked whether they will carry PL-15 training rounds during this exercise as well, making it seem like you believed they needed training Pl-15 to simulate it during DACT?

Based on this reply, it seems you also think that it might not be necessary to carry a CATM of a missile type to simulate it, yes?
I think Siege stated he thought it best to replicate the weight and aerodynamics as closely as possible for the most authentic experience, he did acknowledge that during this exercise they were NOT carrying "practice rounds"

So in answer to your initial question NO, they don't have to have a practice round slung, but yes, all militaries do equip their combat training system with "practice rounds"s so that when you actually begin to maneuver the aircraft against a foe, you are able to experience the sluggishness of a loaded aircraft, as well as the aerodynamic loads and possible degradation of "responsiveness.

This did put the Gripen at an advantage as it handles very well at lighter weights, all aircraft will of necessity experience some degradation of performance and handling when hard points are loaded up, one of the real advantages of 5Gens with an internal bay is much less performance penalty for "going armed".
 

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