China Flanker Thread II


Scchwerter_

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..some more high resolution photos of round-the- clock training of PLAAF Southern Theatre Command on 4 July 2019...


..climbing into the cockpit ready for flight..








...safely home, drogue deploying....
Do you have information on the wingtip ECM pods carried by the J-11A (or at least I assume them to be J-11A)s in the pics? They look quite like what the Russians equip the su-35 with.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
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Do you have information on the wingtip ECM pods carried by the J-11A (or at least I assume them to be J-11A)s in the pics? They look quite like what the Russians equip the su-35 with.

Nope, these are the regular Russian Sorbitsia (or whatever they are called).
 

Scchwerter_

Junior Member
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Nope, these are the regular Russian Sorbitsia (or whatever they are called).
Thanks. I checked the Khibiny pod equipped by su35, and it doesn't seem to be the same as what the PLAAF is using in the pics.
PS I found very little information on Sorbitsia, would it be possible for you to suggest some sources 0v0?
 

Brumby

Major
I think Sorbtsiya (the predecessor to Khibiny) was for Soviet/Russian domestic use only, Chinese and Venezuelan Su-30s are fitted with the less capable Gardeniya.
Information on Khibiny and Gardeniya is hard to find. Do you have any information on their underlying capabilities? Are they :
Analog;
Analog-Digital;
Digital;
Wideband Digital; or
Wideband Digital Channelized?
 

Tirdent

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Information on Khibiny and Gardeniya is hard to find. Do you have any information on their underlying capabilities? Are they :
Analog;
Analog-Digital;
Digital;
Wideband Digital; or
Wideband Digital Channelized?
Gardeniya and Sorbtsiya are analogue, Khibiny and the MSP-418K pod (which can be considered the successor to Gardeniya) are DRFM-based, Khibiny additionally has solid-state phased array antennas like Spectra & DASS in some variants. Since Khibiny acts as the jammer component in an integrated ECM suite, the question of whether the receiver is channelized is a bit difficult. I have a pretty detailed description of the L150-35S ESM component that may well contain the answer, but it's frankly way above my head in terms of Russian language skills and electronics knowledge.
 

Brumby

Major
Gardeniya and Sorbtsiya are analogue, Khibiny and the MSP-418K pod (which can be considered the successor to Gardeniya) are DRFM-based, Khibiny additionally has solid-state phased array antennas like Spectra & DASS in some variants. Since Khibiny acts as the jammer component in an integrated ECM suite, the question of whether the receiver is channelized is a bit difficult. I have a pretty detailed description of the L150-35S ESM component that may well contain the answer, but it's frankly way above my head in terms of Russian language skills and electronics knowledge.
The L150-35S ESM suite is probably the most advance that is actually operational in the Flanker family. According to Kopp, it is fully digital even though he never explained what that means. However I don't believe it is channelized because the materials would clearly state it if it was.

AFAIK, the ESM system is actually comprised of 4 integrated systems :
CKBA L150-35 Pastel RWR;
KNIRTI L265M10R Khibiny-M ECM;
NPK SSP UV missile approach warning system (MAWS); and
Expendable Decoys
upload_2019-7-14_12-30-0.png

The internally stored components of the Khibiny-M system cover 8-18 GHz bands while the optional wingtip mounted pods cover the 2-8 GHz bands giving it wideband coverage from 2 to 18 GHz.

It is probably a very capable system against pulse Doppler radar, I think it might have problems detecting and responding to LPI signals from AESA type radars though.
 

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
However I don't believe it is channelized because the materials would clearly state it if it was.
Don't count on it. If the Russian term for a channelized receiver is not a literal translation it may not be readily recognizable unless you really know your electronics stuff (which I don't, so it might be staring me in the face and I wouldn't be any the wiser). In fact I have a pretty good hunch which paragraph in that document I referred to probably has the relevant info, if only I could make sense of what those Russian phrases equate to in English RF jargon.

Sometimes the Russian term for a certain technology is named after its benefit to the user where the English equivalent takes its name from the solution employed to achieve that outcome or vice versa. Other times there is no dedicated phrase in Russian for something that the Western military establishment makes a big song and dance about (hit-to-kill for example, 9M96 pretty clearly is a HTK missile given its tiny warhead and thrusters near the post-burn CoG, but there simply is no equivalent term). And sometimes marketing material will inexplicably just omit to mention a pivotal technology even though it's present - the only hint of active array technology on early spec sheets for the AESA-version of the Zhuk radar was the implausibly (for anything other than an AESA) high MTBF of 900h.
 
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