China demographics thread.

D

Deleted member 15887

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Yes and the debate was never settled. In my mind China should maintain its position as the world's most populous country as it has occupied throughout the centuries. China's population has long been its strength and a source of resilience, and it is the reason why China today can be an independent power separate from the US whereas countries like Japan and Korea are weaklings which cannot be independent by themselves. On a per capita basis, Japan and South Korea are actually richer than China by a lot. It's due to their lower population that they are weak.

Actually, it is population that enables technology and not vice versa. Today's technology requires scale to develop. For example, companies like Google and Amazon take advantage of the data they get from being so large and having a large customer base to provide a better service. They also take advantage of the fact that they have so many customers and therefore have high revenues. This revenue is then ploughed back into investment and R&D. With larger scale they are also better able to negotiate prices and take advantage of lower costs due to economies of scale. With this cycle of advantages they take a commanding lead over competitors and prevent smaller competitors from having a chance to catch up. Further, AI requires data to develop. The more people you have whose behavior is feeding into AI, the better your data is. 1 billion is better than 500 million and 2 billion is better than 1 billion. A country like Japan can build the best AI programs in the world but they won't be successful if the market is limited only to a country of 120 million people like Japan.

The US will seek to build an anti-China alliance composing of itself (330 million), the Five Eyes (130 million), the EU (550 million), Japan (120 million), and India (1,400 million), by population size, economic size, technological advancement, and military spending, the anti-China alliance dwarfs China by all metrics. And let's be honest, to some extent they will be successful. Of this grouping, only the EU is hesitant and even the EU will impose sanctions on China. Even the EU will listen to the US when it comes to key decisions like exporting EUV equipment or Huawei. Even the EU will send ships to 'patrol' the South China Sea. So you cannot trust the EU to stay neutral. China needs every advantage it can get.

As far as the "job of unskilled workers", this is not a true problem. It is actually a good problem, since robotics means that this work does not have to be done. Who wants to do this kind of job? No one. The West will move to various forms of UBI and a shorter workweek. This will improve people's quality of life. An all-around win-win. If you have good demographics and people working 20-30 hours a week, that is ideal. If you have a 4-2-1 situation with 1 person supporting 4 people and working like a dog, that's not good.

The PBOC is right here. China cannot take on all those countries with a heavy burden old age population, plummeting labor force and shrinking young population. Basically I am happy that at least someone in China recognizes this problem.
Economies of scale is one of China's best economic advantages, whether it be being the world's factory or being a dynamic, innovative powerhouse. While China doesn't necessarily have to maintain an absolutely larger population than India, it should take measures to ensure that the population stabilizes with a healthy population pyramid, and keep the population stabilised around 1.1-1.2 billion people for the rest of the century to ensure this advantage is maintained and continues to be developed.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
BIG NEWS
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The latest Chinese census, which was completed in December but has yet to be made public, is expected to report the total population of the country at less than 1.4bn, according to people familiar with the research. In 2019, China’s population was reported to have exceeded the 1.4bn mark.
“The census results will have a huge impact on how the Chinese people see their country and how various government departments work,” said Huang Wenzheng, a fellow at the Center for China and Globalization, a Beijing-based think-tank. “They need to be handled very carefully.”
“The pace and scale of China’s demographic crisis are faster and bigger than we imagined,” said Huang. “That could have a disastrous impact on the country.”
The real picture could be even worse. In a report published last week, China’s central bank estimated that the total fertility rate, or the average number of children a woman was likely to have in her lifetime, was less than 1.5, compared with the official estimate of 1.8.
“It is almost a fact that China has overestimated its birth rate,” the People’s Bank of China said. “The challenges brought about by China’s demographic shift could be bigger [than expected].”
Big problems for China. It seems that their official fertility figures overestimated their real fertility rate as per the PBOC report.

With the population set to be reduced below the 1.4bn mark, the decline is faster than the officials anticipated.

China is in big big trouble with its demographics. No, automation wont solve this
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
The West only cares because they think Chinese men will be more violent because of the gender imbalance meaning Chinese men will rape the women of the world. China has a history filled with bachelor societies that existed and yet no violence. Look at the US and the Chinese Exclusion Act. They didn't want more Chinese in the US and they certainly didn't want them to breed meaning it was even more difficult for Chinese women to get to the US. There was a gender imbalance of Chinese in the US and yet do we hear stories of Chinese men raping white women? Those stories would've been printed in newspapers as a record if that were happening. In fact when I was in college, I remember reading a story of how in San Francisco white women who were fleeing their abusive husbands would find refuge hiding in Chinatown. Weren't they afraid of getting raped? The Alt-Right, Proud Boys, and incels, all who complain about their diminished masculinity, were the backbone of the Washington DC insurrection a month ago. What's their excuse for being violent since Americans brag about their gender balance? Of course they think everyone else is worse than they are hence why they quickly believe Chinese will be monstrously violent and therefore must be stopped now. How convenient everything ends at the same excuse to stop China now for something they accuse Chinese will do in the future.

The only people that do the raping and killing in the US is white men who can no longer get jobs due to thier stupidity and incompetence.
 

KampfAlwin

Junior Member
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BIG NEWS
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Big problems for China. It seems that their official fertility figures overestimated their real fertility rate as per the PBOC report.

With the population set to be reduced below the 1.4bn mark, the decline is faster than the officials anticipated.

China is in big big trouble with its demographics. No, automation wont solve this
Looks like they need to allow immigration with a citizenship path like US
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Looks like they need to allow immigration with a citizenship path like US
Yes, some people here will probably start deflecting that everything is ok, but these figures are a very clear concern. Even the Chinese Gov officials have started talking about this dire situation.

The problem is that China has never been able to properly integrate other ethnicities and it might not even wish to do so.

Big problem for China if it doesn't start rapidly changing policies instead of their usual "pilot" programs which take 5 years then another 5 years to get rolled out nationally, by then it will be too late.

IMO, the One-Child policy must be dropped ASAP, and then screw the house market speculators, the home prices are huge. And then go after the "996" working culture.

Many things need to be done, very quickly, to stop this huge decline in demographics.
 

KampfAlwin

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes, some people here will probably start deflecting that everything is ok, but these figures are a very clear concern. Even the Chinese Gov officials have started talking about this dire situation.

The problem is that China has never been able to properly integrate other ethnicities and it might not even wish to do so.

Big problem for China if it doesn't start rapidly changing policies instead of their usual "pilot" programs which take 5 years then another 5 years to get rolled out nationally, by then it will be too late.

IMO, the One-Child policy must be dropped ASAP, and then screw the house market speculators, the home prices are huge. And then go after the "996" working culture.

Many things need to be done, very quickly, to stop this huge decline in demographics.
Why haven’t they got around to solve the problems? I’m pretty sure they know it’s bad. I mean I’m not sure if they will allow immigration like US, just look at Japan, it’s stagnating and ageing
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes, some people here will probably start deflecting that everything is ok, but these figures are a very clear concern. Even the Chinese Gov officials have started talking about this dire situation.

The problem is that China has never been able to properly integrate other ethnicities and it might not even wish to do so.

Big problem for China if it doesn't start rapidly changing policies instead of their usual "pilot" programs which take 5 years then another 5 years to get rolled out nationally, by then it will be too late.

IMO, the One-Child policy must be dropped ASAP, and then screw the house market speculators, the home prices are huge. And then go after the "996" working culture.

Many things need to be done, very quickly, to stop this huge decline in demographics.
@voyager1 bro no problem, I will volunteer my children all three of them will answer the call of the motherland...LOL their mandarin are top notch being raise by an auntie (friend of my mother) from the mainland (Dongguan)who can't return home (long story a fugitive) who we help and become a part of the family. Me and my wife (a perfect mandarin speaker) can't contribute since my mandarin is abysmal but my Fookkien is good...LOL.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Why haven’t they got around to solve the problems? I’m pretty sure they know it’s bad.
They know. But I guess there are lot of politics involved.

The "996" culture for example involves the entire tech sector. It probably increases the productivity of the sector but ultimately in expense of quality of life and demographics

The integration and immigration, look no.more than the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, the idiotic CPC for their own stupid reasons didn't properly integrate them in the past so when the terrorism thing started it blew up in their faces. Now the whole world is pressing on China's neck on this thing.

For dropping the One-Child policy, they did some pilot programs but they have still not said when it will rollout nationally. Probably need more studies, reports, there is maybe internal resistance etc.

House prices, local govs are in cahoots with the developers because they get more taxes from house sales. This whole thing is a clusterfuck. No young person will start a family when he is drowning in debt.

And lets not forget that the minimal age for pensions is at 50 years old for female workers. Like Wtf man, why do you give pensions on 50 years when the rest of world is now at 65 and some are going at 67. There is a reason why the world is moving up the pension age, and thats because of demographic crisis and that people live more at this age.

Demographics are very bad news for China. It needs to act NOW, not in 5 or 10 years
 
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