China demographics thread.

[AndrewS]

@gadgetcool5

If you analyse the data from the UK, some other things come out.

1. Foreign born Indians still earn less than their White British counterparts.

2. Indians have the highest level of gender pay inequality.

3. The UK data also says that the children of Indian immigrants will earn less than their white native-born Brit counterpart in the same situation.

In comparison, the children of Chinese and other (East) Asians earn more.

We can reasonably expect the US to have the same experience.
So you do need to revise your estimation of the average Indian.

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[lube]

You guys are really underestimating Indians. Underestimating people solely due to race or ethnicity is pretty stupid. Most people are on average the same intelligence regardless of ethnicity. Institutions, upbringing and education matter far more than nationality. Here in the US, Indians are by far the highest earning group, they make a lot more than us Chinese, plus they are by far the most educated. Indians are very successful here.

Right now it's upper caste, highly educated Indians importing their entire system, caste included, into American companies and government.
Even the best of the best, the upper 1% of urban India, are bringing unwanted baggage into America despite best attempts to assimilate them.
Codifying caste culture via mass immigration is the last thing America needs.

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And of course, the anger over accepting the rest; the poorer, more religious and less educated immigrants are 90% of the political problems in America. Very hard to handwave it away when we've seen it in action.

"Just double, triple immigration from India!" is not the solution you think it is.
Simply put, there's good practical reasons immigration quotas exist.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Most people are on average the same intelligence regardless of ethnicity.

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Rank 1-6 are East Asian, and includes 4 polities with ethnic Chinese majorities (Singapore, HK, Taiwan, mainland China).
Other two nations in top 6 are also East Asian nations with closely related ethnicities (South Korea and Japan).
Even North Korea (also East Asian) is in the top 10.

India is at rank 79, out of only a total of 107 countries included.

Also it is important to note that the data does not come from a single study. There have been over a dozen studies on this topic over the last several decades, with very little deviation between the data across studies. You should also look up, "IQ and the Wealth of Nations."

Reasons for the pay disparity in the US has already been shared by other members, so I will not comment here.

 

[gadgetcool5]

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Rank 1-6 are East Asian, and includes 4 polities with ethnic Chinese majorities (Singapore, HK, Taiwan, mainland China).
Other two nations in top 6 are also East Asian nations with closely related ethnicities (South Korea and Japan).
Even North Korea (also East Asian) is in the top 10.

India is at rank 79, out of only a total of 107 countries included.

Also it is important to note that the data does not come from a single study. There have been over a dozen studies on this topic over the last several decades, with very little deviation between the data across studies. You should also look up, "IQ and the Wealth of Nations."

Reasons for the pay disparity in the US has already been shared by other members, so I will not comment here.

Ah yes, so when my Indian coworker comes up with a solution I didn't come up with and solves more problems for my company than me, I'll just tell my boss, "b-b-but I'm East Asian and studies claim East Asians have higher IQ on average!"

 

[bomberman]

Ah yes, so when my Indian coworker comes up with a solution I didn't come up with and solves more problems for my company than me, I'll just tell my boss, "b-b-but I'm East Asian and studies claim East Asians have higher IQ on average!"

Yes, you should! and that you should and deserve a higher salary due to your IQ is higher!

sorry, could not resist

 

[Appix]

People should ignore those IQ bullshit. I cringe hard everytime people use that western bullshit to prove something. Blegh.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Ah yes, so when my Indian coworker comes up with a solution I didn't come up with and solves more problems for my company than me, I'll just tell my boss, "b-b-but I'm East Asian and studies claim East Asians have higher IQ on average!"

Do you understand the definition or implications of statistical averages?

East Asians having on average higher IQ than Indians does not imply that every East Asian will have higher IQ than every Indian, as your case clearly illustrates.

The mean IQ for China is 1.44 standard deviations higher than the average Indian, which means about 7.5% of Indians will have higher IQ than 50% of Chinese.

As others have mentioned, the populations of Chinese and Indians in the US are not representative of the populations of all Chinese and all Indians - at least in case of Indians, only those in the top portion of the curve tend to emigrate to the US.

Your case is an individual data point that has no statistical significance.

It would be the equivalent as me saying: "I have many Indian coworkers, none of them is able to contribute as much as me, and I am East Asian, therefore East Asians are always smarter and more productive than Indians." (obviously false, as you have already so helpfully provided a counterexample for)

 

[AndrewS]

Ah yes, so when my Indian coworker comes up with a solution I didn't come up with and solves more problems for my company than me, I'll just tell my boss, "b-b-but I'm East Asian and studies claim East Asians have higher IQ on average!"

Where is your critical thinking?

 

[gadgetcool5]

Do you understand the definition or implications of statistical averages?

East Asians having on average higher IQ than Indians does not imply that every East Asian will have higher IQ than every Indian, as your case clearly illustrates.

The mean IQ for China is 1.44 standard deviations higher than the average Indian, which means about 7.5% of Indians will have higher IQ than 50% of Chinese.

As others have mentioned, the populations of Chinese and Indians in the US are not representative of the populations of all Chinese and all Indians - at least in case of Indians, only those in the top portion of the curve tend to emigrate to the US.

Your case is an individual data point that has no statistical significance.

It would be the equivalent as me saying: "I have many Indian coworkers, none of them is able to contribute as much as me, and I am East Asian, therefore East Asians are always smarter and more productive than Indians." (obviously false, as you have already so helpfully provided a counterexample for)

My personal IQ is extremely high. "My case" was just a hypothetical example.

The reality is your "statistical average" is race science - in other words, racism, pure and simple.

It is morally wrong.

In reality IQ is not some sort of genetic or national trait, statistical or otherwise - it is a product of nurture and environment. IQ scores of the same national populations have increased dramatically in time with better childhood conditions and lower poverty rates. Take an average member of the Indian population, currently living with a lower per capita GDP than China, and put them in the US, with much better environment and educational system - and he or she will excel and score higher on IQ tests. Hence what their situation is in India is, is irrelevant when discussing Indian immigration to the US!

 

[AndrewS]

My personal IQ is extremely high. "My case" was just a hypothetical example.

The reality is your "statistical average" is race science - in other words, racism, pure and simple.

It is morally wrong.

In reality IQ is not some sort of genetic or national trait, statistical or otherwise - it is a product of nurture and environment. IQ scores of the same national populations have increased dramatically in time with better childhood conditions and lower poverty rates. Take an average member of the Indian population, currently living with a lower per capita GDP than China, and put them in the US, with much better environment and educational system - and he or she will excel and score higher on IQ tests. Hence what their situation is in India is, is irrelevant when discussing Indian immigration to the US!

If your IQ is so high, then why don't you demonstrate more critical thinking?

No one is impressed with people who boast of their IQ, particularly if you're already amongst a group of peers or it already runs in the family.

---

Given the number of Indians (approaching half) which were malnourished as children, the studies show their brain and educational development will permanently suffer for the rest of their lives. That IS the average Indian you are using for comparison.

If you then put the average Indian into a US university, they will likely underperform compared to others who weren't deprived as children.

It's not their fault, but they simply won't score as high in IQ or other verbal/numerical reasoning tests, their short-term memory is worse, etc

And the studies show that aptitude in these sorts of tests is the only academic test indicator of whether a person will succeed in a job.

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