China and Africa

name

New Member
Registered Member
What is soft and hard power? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power#:~:text=This%20soft%20power%20–%20getting%20others,use%20of%20coercion%20and%20payment.

This soft power – getting others to want the outcomes you want – co-opts people rather than coerces them.
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It can be contrasted with '
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', which is the use of coercion and **payment.**

You link proves my point.

China building infrastructure, providing super affordable loans, waiving loans, and transferring technology are forms of payment, which is a form of hard power.

You watch, amazon, aliexpresss examples are awful examples.

As an example.

You boss pays you money to work. That is hard power. You would not work if they stopped paying. You are not attracted to work. You go for the money.

You volunteer for free to plant trees because your favorite celebrity supports the cause. That is soft power. You are not motivated by any coercion or payment. You go willingly out of attraction to your celebrity.



"name" thinks soft power is people liking you for doing essentially nothing.

And it's working like super well for them.


Average people in China still idolize America and Americans quite a lot, and in my honest opinion, wayyyyy more than we actually deserve.

Do the Chinese hate Americans collectively or are they pretty apathetic towards them? - A Rational View of China
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The Chinese are being attacked, killed, scapegoated, racially profiled, discriminated against, left and right by (especially white) Americans...yet Chinese people still have a positive view of Americans.

HK rioters were brainwashed enough to hold pro British flags and many even migrated to the UK, where they are surprised to be treated like shit just like in America.

These people have their minds poisoned by western soft power/psychological warfare. That is why they have such positive views of these western criminals. Do you get it?

Do you think the average naive/ignorant Chinese would be so nice to a white American if they knew how much these white bastards hated their guts, exploited them, abused them, disrespect them, cucked them (if they were men), pump and dump them (if they are women), and spread racist lies about them?

Do you think they would like them if they knew that these "wonderful white Americans" endlessly spread lies about them and create anti Asian hate speech disguised as entertainment (Asian men are portrayed dis proportionally as ugly, homosexuals, losers, nerds, etc).

Do you think the average Chinese family would want their young daughter to be tutored by a Caucasian American child rapist/ esl "teacher" (white men as the biggest group of child rapists in SEA and probably EA too)

The Chinese (and Asians in general) are sitting ducks because they are hopelessly naive/ignorant about white people. They are hopelessly naive/ignorant because white people wage total psychological warfare AND the Chinese are totally oblivious to how powerful and dangerous psychological warfare is.

People like you (who I assume means well) keep them ignorant by pretending Western soft power/psychological warfare has no or just limited effect.


The bazillion of celebrity endorsements Hillary Clinton got during her run for the presidency got her 0 mileage from the actual voters in America

Support your claim with sources.

some powers they have huh.

You're just repeating the same debunked argument from assassinsmace.

As an analogy, do you understand if someone destroys the reputation of your business through a smear campaign that even if your business survives, it has been harmed greatly because you've lost lots of good will, business partners, customers, etc?

I can't understand why this is so hard for you and many others to understand. I heard the same flawed argument over the HK rioters and Xinjiang. They said ", see! soft power/psychological warfare doesn't matter. We still control HK/Xinjiang."

Ok, but do you not understand they just spent a few million dollars to waste (some estimate) multi billions of dollars and create decades of animosity amongst maybe several hundreds of thousands to millions of people that may be engage in terrorism in the future?

How is that a win? In HK, your enemy used say $1 to create $2000 worth of problems for you and you celebrate this as a "victory"?

I constantly see this incredibly flawed understanding that claims if some soft power/psychological warfare attack fails to achieve 100% total victory, they will claim ", I told you soft power/psychological warfare is useless".

effective use of soft power a.k.a. effective governance system, continued economic resiliency and growth, building and improving high end tech

You are still making the very similar mistakes to the CPC. The CPC needs to understand that it's the hedonistic elements that build great soft power. That's why the West tries to paint itself as some pleasure utopia. I'm not saying China should do that because the costs are too great to become a hedonist culture, but the attraction of the west is largely hedonistic: sex, beauty, fun, freedom, free press, religious freedom, free speech, rags to riches myth, convenient technology, material things/consumerism, individualism, etc. A lot of this stuff is false promises, of course. CPC saying ", we are good at infrastructure and orderly discipline" isn't sexy to the average person. It's like diets. People know they should eat vegetables, but they really want to eat cookies, ice cream, and chips.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
And it's working like super well for them.

And of course you ignore how China gave the gift of literacy to the West because China inventing printing... So according to you the West is suppose to like China but they don't. Your whole argument over soft power falls apart there.
 

name

New Member
Registered Member
And of course you ignore how China gave the gift of literacy to the West because China inventing printing... So according to you the West is suppose to like China but they don't. Your whole argument over soft power falls apart there.
I did not ignore your argument. I already debunked that earlier. Here's a part of the answer.

I see what you're saying and I ask the reverse. The west made a lot of STEM and artistic achievements. Do you see the world liking them for that? Yes, a lot. With East Asians poisoned with white worship.

So, you're just repeating debunked arguments; ignoring all my other arguments that you can't address; and even projecting that behavior onto me. Just lol.

Let's recap so I cover everything.

1. You basically think soft power is all bs.
2. You think China shouldn't do anything to build soft power because of 1
3. You think China shouldn't fight against the west's soft power/psychological warfare because of 1
4. You think being concerned with soft power makes one weak.
5. You think it's all about money and nothing else.

Did I get it all?
 

broadsword

Brigadier
You link proves my point.
You have a comprehension problem.

China building infrastructure, providing super affordable loans, waiving loans, and transferring technology are forms of payment, which is a form of hard power.
You can give favorable terms, but the recipients are free to reject. In a hard power situation like what the US did to its allies over Huawei, there was no other way because it basically demanded them to comply.


You boss pays you money to work. That is hard power. You would not work if they stopped paying. You are not attracted to work. You go for the money.
Nobody is forcing you to work for your boss. You are free to work for others regardless of the amount of pay.
 

name

New Member
Registered Member
You have a comprehension problem.

Again, this is from your link.

What is soft and hard power? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power#:~:text=This%20soft%20power%20–%20getting%20others,use%20of%20coercion%20and%20payment.
This soft power – getting others to want the outcomes you want – co-opts people rather than coerces them.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


It can be contrasted with '
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', which is the use of coercion and **payment.**

Coercion is hard power. Someone threatens you with a gun.

Payment is hard power. Someone bribes you with money.

1. I think the first confusion is the word "and".
Coercion and payment can be used together or separately. The wiki should have used the phrase "and/or" instead of "and".

2. The second confusion is thinking hard power = coercion. That is wrong. Hard power is basically obtaining a desired behavior with something other than the power of attraction/appeal.

In summary:
Target does something because of attraction/appeal = soft power
Target does something because of something other than attraction/appeal = hard power
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Again, this is from your link.



Coercion is hard power. Someone threatens you with a gun.

Payment is hard power. Someone bribes you with money.

1. I think the first confusion is the word "and".
Coercion and payment can be used together or separately. The wiki should have used the phrase "and/or" instead of "and".
If someone attempts to bribe you with $1, he is using hard power by your definition. But if you refuse to accept, where is the hard power?

2. The second confusion is thinking hard power = coercion. That is wrong. Hard power is basically obtaining a desired behavior with something other than the power of attraction/appeal.
Let me resolve your confusion with the definitions found on online dictionaries, not bloggers.

From Google:
noun: hard power
a coercive approach to international political relations, especially one that involves the use of military power.

From Cambridge
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the use of a country's
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to
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other
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to do something,
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than the use of
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or
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:

From Oxford Learners
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an aggressive way of dealing with other countries that involves using the threat of military force to make them do what you want

The closest to your definition from Wiktionary
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The use of
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and
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means to influence the behavior or interests of other political
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.
You can still reject the bribe.
 

tygyg1111

Senior Member
Registered Member
Again, this is from your link.



Coercion is hard power. Someone threatens you with a gun.

Payment is hard power. Someone bribes you with money.

1. I think the first confusion is the word "and".
Coercion and payment can be used together or separately. The wiki should have used the phrase "and/or" instead of "and".

2. The second confusion is thinking hard power = coercion. That is wrong. Hard power is basically obtaining a desired behavior with something other than the power of attraction/appeal.

In summary:
Target does something because of attraction/appeal = soft power
Target does something because of something other than attraction/appeal = hard power
I don't know why this is still being argued about despite various recurrences throughout the history of this thread.

Recurring conclusions:
1) Soft power is derived from Hard power (Political power grows from the barrel of a gun).
2) Benefits of soft power come only after hard power dominance is achieved. No empire was externally popular when they were rising.
3) Soft power without hard power is useless. Examples: Japan & Plaza Accord, banning of RT in USA aligned countries.

@name I think you just want the benefits before all the hard work is done. Patience is a virtue, just think of the difference between China now and 10 years ago, because this trend is accelerating.

Having soft power without the hard is like living off charity. When the interests of the giver change, you are f*cked.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
We all love China to possess hard power over other nations, don't we, instead of issuing ultimatum after ultimatum?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Everyone sucking up to the US is expecting something in return. It's not that the West just exists is why people follow them. When the West falls, you'll see how no one wants to follow them. What the West shows of themselves is what they want being shown to the world. In the US the average American is who you see at Walmart not in Hollywood movies. That doesn't come from nothing. The West had generation after generation to brainwash the weak in countries they colonized to get the results that they claim today is natural and there was nothing soft about it.
 
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