China and Africa

name

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@broadsword

We know that military and economic might often get others to change their position **Hard power can rest on inducements ('carrots') or threats ('sticks')**. But sometimes you can get the outcomes you want without tangible threats or payoffs. The indirect way to get what you want has some times been called 'the second face of power '. A country may obtain the outcomes it wants in world politics because other countries ad miring its values, emulating its example, aspiring to its level of prosperity and openness want to follow it.

Page 5 from Soft Power The Means To Success In World Politics BY Joseph S. Nye Jr. (the guy who coined the term soft power, the source, the horses's mouth, etc.)

wVxJlay.jpg



@AssassinsMace
No you just admitted your version of soft power doesn't give anyone power of any sort.

This makes no sense. I just listed a bunch of examples of western soft power working as intended but you ignore it.

then you write this...

The West had generation after generation to brainwash the weak in countries they colonized to get the results

This is one of my central points. White people are gaining soft power through a lot of psychological warfare (as well as having real things that people want like wealth, technology, etc).

I kept saying the west wages psychological warfare and that China needs to fight back so they don't get brainwashed. I kept showing examples of how Chinese people are brainwashed by the west. You tell claim it's all bs and now you contradict yourself by saying white people brainwashed people (eg psychological warfare) to get soft power.

Do you even know what you are arguing for?


@tygyg1111
I think you just want the benefits before all the hard work is done.

No. That was never my stance. I know hard power is the most important, but China's soft power is really awful. You can think of it like a product. Imagine you had a manufactured a great car (reliable, great range, safe, etc) but your branding was awful and it was named the nuclear cockroach. That's what China soft power is like. China is high substance and low style. It's a great nation that does so much of the right things but they are horrific at branding. I'm over simplifying because it's not just branding that they're awful at (there's so much more) but I want to keep this short.

The West is the opposite. Lower substance but higher style. They're able to scam lots of people in so many areas with superior branding.

My primary concern is not even with getting benefits of people to love China. China has much more pressing issues to address.

I'm mostly concerned with how Chinese people and Asians in general constantly get scammed by whites (immigrants running off to anti Asian hellscapes, STEM geniuses being stolen from us, Asian women being abused, Asian families being oblivious to racism/discrimination, Asia being flooded by child rapist esl "teachers", ripped off by western crap, Asia being infiltrated by fake western ngo Trojan horses, etc.).

The other giant concern is how incompetent Chinese media is at defending themselves against the west's constant psychological warfare attacks, atrocity propaganda, and other smear campaigns, etc.
 

name

New Member
Registered Member
How does that prove your examples of hard power?

They match perfectly. That's how.

This is from Joseph Nye for reference.
Hard power can rest on inducements ('carrots') or threats ('sticks')

My examples again and tagged with carrot or sticks and keywords in bold.

Coercion is hard power. Someone threatens you with a gun. This is threats ('sticks').

Payment is hard power. Someone bribes you with money. This is inducements ('carrots').
 

tygyg1111

Senior Member
Registered Member
@broadsword



Page 5 from Soft Power The Means To Success In World Politics BY Joseph S. Nye Jr. (the guy who coined the term soft power, the source, the horses's mouth, etc.)

wVxJlay.jpg



@AssassinsMace


This makes no sense. I just listed a bunch of examples of western soft power working as intended but you ignore it.

then you write this...



This is one of my central points. White people are gaining soft power through a lot of psychological warfare (as well as having real things that people want like wealth, technology, etc).

I kept saying the west wages psychological warfare and that China needs to fight back so they don't get brainwashed. I kept showing examples of how Chinese people are brainwashed by the west. You tell claim it's all bs and now you contradict yourself by saying white people brainwashed people (eg psychological warfare) to get soft power.

Do you even know what you are arguing for?


@tygyg1111


No. That was never my stance. I know hard power is the most important, but China's soft power is really awful. You can think of it like a product. Imagine you had a manufactured a great car (reliable, great range, safe, etc) but your branding was awful and it was named the nuclear cockroach. That's what China soft power is like. China is high substance and low style. It's a great nation that does so much of the right things but they are horrific at branding. I'm over simplifying because it's not just branding that they're awful at (there's so much more) but I want to keep this short.

The West is the opposite. Lower substance but higher style. They're able to scam lots of people in so many areas with superior branding.

My primary concern is not even with getting benefits of people to love China. China has much more pressing issues to address.

I'm mostly concerned with how Chinese people and Asians in general constantly get scammed by whites (immigrants running off to anti Asian hellscapes, STEM geniuses being stolen from us, Asian women being abused, Asian families being oblivious to racism/discrimination, Asia being flooded by child rapist esl "teachers", ripped off by western crap, Asia being infiltrated by fake western ngo Trojan horses, etc.).

The other giant concern is how incompetent Chinese media is at defending themselves against the west's constant psychological warfare attacks, atrocity propaganda, and other smear campaigns, etc.
You could say India is good at soft power, however, does anyone respect India?

And just to be facetious, if there was an excellent car named the nuclear cockroach, I would probably buy it. It would get a cult following, and cults are the height of soft power influence, wouldn't you say? :p
 

broadsword

Brigadier
They match perfectly. That's how.

This is from Joseph Nye for reference.


My examples again and tagged with carrot or sticks and keywords in bold.

Coercion is hard power. Someone threatens you with a gun. This is threats ('sticks').

Payment is hard power. Someone bribes you with money. This is inducements ('carrots').

Coercion implies you can't say no. Payment in the form of bribery is optional. You can still reject.

I added additional definitions from the dictionaries. Just because Nye put it in does not make it holy, even though he got the coercion part right.

Otherwise, countries like NK, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, etc would not pose problems to the US.

But economic coercion, even when not said aloud, often carries more weight.
 
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broadsword

Brigadier
You could say India is good at soft power, however, does anyone respect India?

And just to be facetious, if there was an excellent car named the nuclear cockroach, I would probably buy it. It would get a cult following, and cults are the height of soft power influence, wouldn't you say? :p
No, I would not say India is good at soft power.
 

name

New Member
Registered Member
You could say India is good at soft power, however, does anyone respect India?

Source?

Coercion implies you can't say no. Payment in the form of bribery is optional. You can still reject.

You are still confusing hard power = coercion. This is your sticking point.

Coercion is one type of hard power.
Coercion is not the only hard power.


Again, from Nye...

Hard power can rest on inducements ('carrots') or threats ('sticks')

You can reject carrots. But carrots are still a type of hard power.

Just because Nye put it in does not make it holy

I gave you the source from the original source himself. I'm not debating the definition any further. You can take it up with him if you still disagree.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
You are still confusing hard power = coercion. This is your sticking point.

Coercion is one type of hard power.
Coercion is not the only hard power.


Again, from Nye...



You can reject carrots. But carrots are still a type of hard power.



I gave you the source from the original source himself. I'm not debating the definition any further. You can take it up with him if you still disagree.

Coercion is the primary type of hard power.

A hard power that you can reject is a lame carrot. I don't want your $100m, what can you do? You can start color revolutions or coup me.

Nye is not the only one with the definition. Do you want to debate the dictionaries that are used by all people, not just the forumers here? He got the coercion part right, which was what I posited from the beginning.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The British brag how their soft power is that English is spoken widely around the world. And how did that happen? Through force and punishment on those that they colonized. Then they taunt how Chinese is not. And why is that? Because China didn't colonize the world therefore coerce people into speaking Chinese. And that's suppose to be the good kind of soft power the British say they have...
 

tygyg1111

Senior Member
Registered Member
The British brag how their soft power is that English is spoken widely around the world. And how did that happen? Through force and punishment on those that they colonized. Then they taunt how Chinese is not. And why is that? Because China didn't colonize the world therefore coerce people into speaking Chinese. And that's suppose to be the good kind of soft power the British say they have...
One day the British might be speaking Chinese...
 
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