China and Africa


solarz

Brigadier
Came across this video:


I haven't watched through all of it yet, but it looks interesting.

Personally, I think Africa is going to be a waking giant in the next few decades. Already we are seeing countries like Ethiopia starting to become economic powerhouses.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Came across this video:


I haven't watched through all of it yet, but it looks interesting.

Personally, I think Africa is going to be a waking giant in the next few decades. Already we are seeing countries like Ethiopia starting to become economic powerhouses.


The West wants to make it so that the world is dependent on them for production and consumption.

More African/Middle East/Asia wealth/South America = more buffers for China from white supremacists trying to get bold.

85% of the population is outside the West, but it's only half the world's GDP.
 

gelgoog

Colonel
Registered Member
Personally, I think Africa is going to be a waking giant in the next few decades. Already we are seeing countries like Ethiopia starting to become economic powerhouses.

Ethiopia is in deep political shit. The fact that their constitution allows secession with a referendum is breaking the country into pieces.

A lot of African countries are deeply divided with people of different races who often don't even speak the same language. They often have different religions and customs. The continent is highly insular.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Africa is in deep political crisis. Their countries systems are not mature enough. Corruption is everywhere (much worse than pre-Xi China's corruption..).

West is also constantly interfering. They have democracy but their citizens are not educated etc
They have thousands of problems

Honestly, as it stands now, I would say that Africa is not a reliable partner
 

gelgoog

Colonel
Registered Member
To be honest I think Chinese investments in their phone networks and rail as part of BRI might help.
It should help with centralization which is what most of these countries lack.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Well, even if not reliable now, I wouldnt say that it is not worth it to invest there.

Africa presents a strategic opportunity for China to find a huge market for its products, out of the West (US, EU). It could eventually grow to be what the EU was for US ie. a huge customer

So, China should keep investing there and keep trying to promote digitization on the governance level to pick up some easy anti-corruption wins
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
An old joke I heard goes like this.

Three government officials from China, India and Africa (pick your favorite African country) often meet up on conferences. Eventually they become good friends and invited each other to their own homes.

First they went to China and drove on a new 4 lane highway. The Chinese official had a big mansion for his guests to visit. The Indian and African official asked, how did you afford such a big house on government salary? The Chinese official said: see that highway we drove in on? I skimmed a bit from that project.

Then they went to India and drove on a 2 lane pothole filled dirt road. The Indian official had an even bigger mansion. He skimmed more from the road project than the Chinese guy.

At last they went to Africa and flew in a helicopter over virgin forest to a grand palace. The Indian and Chinese officials asked how the money was made. The African official said: see the highway we flew over? The Chinese and Indian guys ask: what highway? There was only forest. The African official said : exactly, I told the entire budget.

And that explains everything you need to know about corruption in Africa/India/China. At least in china, stuff gets done. However, Africa is a billion people market like China in 1980. So if can get them to even spend $1 per person, it's a lot of money to be made.
 

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
And that explains everything you need to know about corruption in Africa/India/China. At least in china, stuff gets done. However, Africa is a billion people market like China in 1980. So if can get them to even spend $1 per person, it's a lot of money to be made.

No quite.

The Indian model is a shitload worse than the Chinese model.

1. In an authoritarian system, you need only to find the local party boss, hand over a small amount and promise a percentage of the proceeds, and the project will start ASAP.

2. In the Indian system, you have to spend time greasing every party and faction, even regulatory bodies you've never heard of. And you have to pay up front, because the current honcho can't wait around for the project to start generating returns on investment.

So from a business standpoint, the Chinese model offers efficiency and less up front capital requirements. The Indian model burns up time and money, draining away any advantage you might have had.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
No quite.

The Indian model is a shitload worse than the Chinese model.

1. In an authoritarian system, you need only to find the local party boss, hand over a small amount and promise a percentage of the proceeds, and the project will start ASAP.

2. In the Indian system, you have to spend time greasing every party and faction, even regulatory bodies you've never heard of. And you have to pay up front, because the current honcho can't wait around for the project to start generating returns on investment.

So from a business standpoint, the Chinese model offers efficiency and less up front capital requirements. The Indian model burns up time and money, draining away any advantage you might have had.
That's why they get the two lane potholes dirt road... It's the old road that was not improved.
 

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