Don't also forget that industrial & resource power of BRICS is also greater than the G7s, where most economies are service-based and resource scarce (except for Canada and US).
BRICS & New World Order Thread
- Thread starter Strangelove
- Start date
Under Lula, Brazil became the world's eighth-largest economy, more than 20 million people rose out of acute poverty and Rio de Janeiro was awarded the 2016 Summer Olympics, the first time the Games will be held in South America.
— The Washington Post, October 2010
Lula's objective is to return Brazil to the heights it has fallen from under Bolsonaro. A big focus has so far been put on environmental-friendly development and the preservation of the Amazon. Lula needs the US to commit to aiding the Amazon Fund, but he also needs China's BRI and China's help (likely low carbon import regulations) to exert influence over Brazilian farmers and reform their deforestation practices.
Biden had promised to donate $20 billion to the Amazon Fund during his 2020 re-election campaign. Brazil expected the US to follow through on its word after Lula's negotiations with Biden went well, but instead , a political snub, especially when compared to Norway's $1.2 billion contribution. The betrayal is evidence of the icy cold current underlying the two leaders' superficial camaraderie.
The US's diminishing financial importance to Brazil is China's gain. Lula was the first Brazilian president to make China outreach his number 1 most important foreign policy focus. His pro-China stance is so staunch and well known, even Biden tactfully avoided its topic during Lula's visit. Both historical precedent and present conditions support much stronger future China-Brazil relations. Lula will likely direct Mercosur-China deals and CELAC-China strategy as well.
“When there was a BRICS summit here in Ceará state in Brazil, I told comrade Dilma [Rousseff, the former president] that we should organize a pact like the Russia-China pact. A huge pact giving the Chinese part of what they wanted, which was Brazil’s capacity to produce food and energy and also the capacity to have access to technological knowledge. Brazil needed a lot of infrastructure. We needed high-speed rail, many things. But in the end that did not happen.”
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I think Lula's plans for BRICS+ may be what will be truly interesting. With China seeking to add pro-China candidates to consolidate its influence and India likely to oppose any such actions, Russia and Brazil emerge as kingmakers in what countries will next join BRICS+ (South Africa seems like an non-entity in decision making). RIC will be jockeying against each other and looking to make immediate political or economic gains, but Brazil is likely to take a broader and more principled view. Lula may prioritize equal representation of the Global South and geographical balance in BRICS+ members. At the same time, he will value a more proactive, anti-West stance, as his relations with the US continue to sour.
"BRICS was not created to be an instrument of defense, but to be an instrument of attack... I imagined a more aggressive BRICS, more proactive and more creative. ‘The Soviet empire has already fallen; let’s create a democratic empire.’ I think we made some advances, but we advanced slowly. BRICS should be much stronger by now.”
That is, he may be thinking of supporting a new member from the Muslim World. I can definitely see Iran admitted, as it seems to have ties with all of BRIC (Lula is an old friend of Ali Khamenei and diplomatic ally during the 2010 Tehran Nuclear Declaration). I could also see Saudis supported for membership, considering they are a bloc leader like Brazil.
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Exactly, but their "service-based" economies are also mostly for their central banks to print their currencies out of thin air, then give it to their governments through bond buying, and then their governments give it to their citizens through social programs or general spending.
They can still do that but not for much longer. As soon as the rest of the world stops craving those currencies, they would experience hyperinflation and collapse into civil wars.
Then that free money given to their citizens is used by their citizens to buy Chinese goods, or goods with mostly Chinese parts from Walmart, Target, Home Depot, etc. They count that as "services" as well.
Those westerners don't produce anything anymore. They can't outproduce Russia in the Ukraine war despite Russia being the "size of Italy" through their combined efforts. It is because Russia doesn't live out of printing money out of thin air, they are an industrial-based nation.
It's not just Russia, every other country on the planet has a better-structured economy than the West. Imagine China outproducing them in a war for Taiwan around 5-10 times.
Russia's nominal GDP size of Italy, it's only relevant information for delusional westerners. PPP GDP is what matters the most, and then it's not the PPP GDP but the size of your industrial might and natural resources, that matters the most in case of a war. That's why Russia with that much smaller GDP is humiliating them in the Ukraine war.
China needs to be very focused with South America. It's unlikely to ever get such a period of left leaning head of states who want to cooperate with them for economic development. More than anything, Brazil itself is somewhat independent and maybe interested in cooperating militarily with China through armed purchases. China should be actively pursuing Brazil. It's already very involved with Brazilian economy but I think they can get to an even higher level with more RMB usage, more Chinese plants there, more resources, more tech transfers and such.
They need to be making overtures with Colombia and help Argentina out more.
Iraq has a Communist Party now? The USA really getting disrespected these days:
By Huang Peizhao, Han Xiaoming () 09:02, February 27, 2023
Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee and chairman of the Central Military Commission, walks with foreign guests to attend the opening ceremony of CPC in Dialogue with World Political Parties High-Level Meeting in Beijing, capital of China, Dec. 1, 2017. (Xinhua/Rao Aimin)
"I had the honor to listen to the important speech delivered by general secretary Xi Jinping of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee. His deep thoughts, open vision and broad mind impressed me very much," said Raed Fahmi, secretary of the Central Committee of the Iraqi Communist Party (ICP), recalling his meeting with Xi during a visit to China in 2017.
The CPC in Dialogue with World Political Parties High-Level Meeting was hosted by the International Department of the CPC Central Committee from Nov. 30 to Dec. 3, 2017. Xi, also Chinese president and chairman of the Central Military Commission, attended the opening ceremony and delivered a keynote speech.
The meeting was joined by over 600 representatives from nearly 300 political parties and organizations in more than 120 countries.
"It was a world event of historic significance. General secretary Xi's keynote speech charted the course for future development with a global vision," said Fahmi.
What impressed him the most was Xi's remarks that the CPC will continue to uphold global peace and tranquility, promote common development for all and promote mutual enrichment among civilizations.
"The CPC has made friends all over the world and continues to contribute to human progress," Fahmi noted.
Inspired by the fruitful results achieved at the high-level meeting, Fahmi shared his experience of participation in an article published in Iraqi media.
He said the equal and friendly dialogue between the CPC and world political parties was definitely of important significance. The CPC upholds openness and inclusiveness, shares governance experiences and promotes inter-civilization exchanges and mutual learning with political parties of other countries, which vividly mirrors the vision of building a community with a shared future for mankind, Fahmi said in the article.
Raed Fahmi, secretary of the Central Committee of the Iraqi Communist Party (Photo provided by Raed Fahmi)
The ICP leader has visited China twice. Following the development of China for a long time, Fahmi had a more profound understanding of China's achievements and the path of socialism with Chinese characteristics when he walked on the streets of Chinese cities.
"China's huge achievements are reflected in its rapid urban and rural development, in its beautiful ecology and in the confidence of the Chinese people," he said.
The successful development path indicates the obvious institutional advantages of socialism with Chinese characteristics, and China's exploration and practice for socialist construction is attracting worldwide attention, Fahmi added.
Today, Iraq sees urgent tasks to maintain security and stability, accelerate development reconstruction, as well as improve people's livelihood.
Living a happy life is the primary human right. Fahmi noticed that the CPC has followed a people-centered development philosophy, and implemented a series of major policies and measures to safeguard and improve people's livelihood and resolve difficulties of them.
"As a result, the Chinese people have gained a strong sense of fulfillment, happiness, and security," Fahmi told People's Daily.
He spoke highly of China's success in eradicating absolute poverty and building a moderately prosperous society in all respects.
"China has achieved the poverty alleviation goal set on the UN 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development 10 years ahead of schedule. It is actively launching international cooperation on poverty alleviation, fulfilling its international responsibility in this regard and providing assistance to other developing countries to the full extent of its ability. It is an active promoter of global poverty alleviation," Fahmi said.
He added that relevant countries should learn from China's poverty alleviation experience especially when the number of global impoverished people is constantly growing due to COVID-19, the climate crisis and regional conflicts.
Iraq receives a batch of COVID-19 vaccines donated by the Chinese government at the Baghdad International Airport, Aug. 12, 2021, local time. (Photo courtesy of the Chinese Embassy in Iraq)
China has proposed and is practicing the vision of building a community with a shared future for mankind, bringing opportunities for the world with its own development, Fahmi said. He believes that China and Iraq's joint effort in building the Belt and Road Initiative is an example of the two countries upholding the vision and achieving mutual benefit and common progress.
Today, the cooperation projects between the two countries cover multiple aspects such as the oil industry, communication technology and infrastructure construction, which is important for Iraq's reconstruction.
Since the outbreak of COVID-19, China has dispatched medical expert teams to Iraq and provided batches of medical materials and vaccines to the country, which boosted Iraq's confidence in fighting the disease, Fahmi told People's Daily.
He noted that China, launching wide international anti-pandemic cooperation and actively building a global community of health for all, has made prominent contributions to safeguarding global public health security.
China is always committed to promoting international justice and equity, and to safeguarding and practicing real multilateralism. It has forged a new type of international relations featuring mutual respect, fairness, justice and win-win cooperation, promoted the vision of common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security among nations, and proposed the Global Development Initiative and the Global Security Initiative.
"China has kept its words and set an example for the rest of the world," said Fahmi, citing Xi's remarks that "Major countries should act like major countries. They should provide more global public goods, take up their due responsibilities and live up to people's expectations."
Fahmi extended his congratulations on the success of the 20th CPC National Congress. "The ICP attaches high importance to its friendly relations with the CPC, admires the remarkable achievements made by the Chinese people and appreciates the selfless support and assistance for Iraq from the Chinese side. We are willing to continue deepening exchanges and cooperation with the CPC and work for further development of Iraq-China strategic partnership," he said.
(Web editor: Chang Sha, Du Mingming)
China brings opportunities for the world with its own development: head of Iraqi Communist Party
By Huang Peizhao, Han Xiaoming () 09:02, February 27, 2023
Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee and chairman of the Central Military Commission, walks with foreign guests to attend the opening ceremony of CPC in Dialogue with World Political Parties High-Level Meeting in Beijing, capital of China, Dec. 1, 2017. (Xinhua/Rao Aimin)
"I had the honor to listen to the important speech delivered by general secretary Xi Jinping of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee. His deep thoughts, open vision and broad mind impressed me very much," said Raed Fahmi, secretary of the Central Committee of the Iraqi Communist Party (ICP), recalling his meeting with Xi during a visit to China in 2017.
The CPC in Dialogue with World Political Parties High-Level Meeting was hosted by the International Department of the CPC Central Committee from Nov. 30 to Dec. 3, 2017. Xi, also Chinese president and chairman of the Central Military Commission, attended the opening ceremony and delivered a keynote speech.
The meeting was joined by over 600 representatives from nearly 300 political parties and organizations in more than 120 countries.
"It was a world event of historic significance. General secretary Xi's keynote speech charted the course for future development with a global vision," said Fahmi.
What impressed him the most was Xi's remarks that the CPC will continue to uphold global peace and tranquility, promote common development for all and promote mutual enrichment among civilizations.
"The CPC has made friends all over the world and continues to contribute to human progress," Fahmi noted.
Inspired by the fruitful results achieved at the high-level meeting, Fahmi shared his experience of participation in an article published in Iraqi media.
He said the equal and friendly dialogue between the CPC and world political parties was definitely of important significance. The CPC upholds openness and inclusiveness, shares governance experiences and promotes inter-civilization exchanges and mutual learning with political parties of other countries, which vividly mirrors the vision of building a community with a shared future for mankind, Fahmi said in the article.
Raed Fahmi, secretary of the Central Committee of the Iraqi Communist Party (Photo provided by Raed Fahmi)
The ICP leader has visited China twice. Following the development of China for a long time, Fahmi had a more profound understanding of China's achievements and the path of socialism with Chinese characteristics when he walked on the streets of Chinese cities.
"China's huge achievements are reflected in its rapid urban and rural development, in its beautiful ecology and in the confidence of the Chinese people," he said.
The successful development path indicates the obvious institutional advantages of socialism with Chinese characteristics, and China's exploration and practice for socialist construction is attracting worldwide attention, Fahmi added.
Today, Iraq sees urgent tasks to maintain security and stability, accelerate development reconstruction, as well as improve people's livelihood.
Living a happy life is the primary human right. Fahmi noticed that the CPC has followed a people-centered development philosophy, and implemented a series of major policies and measures to safeguard and improve people's livelihood and resolve difficulties of them.
"As a result, the Chinese people have gained a strong sense of fulfillment, happiness, and security," Fahmi told People's Daily.
He spoke highly of China's success in eradicating absolute poverty and building a moderately prosperous society in all respects.
"China has achieved the poverty alleviation goal set on the UN 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development 10 years ahead of schedule. It is actively launching international cooperation on poverty alleviation, fulfilling its international responsibility in this regard and providing assistance to other developing countries to the full extent of its ability. It is an active promoter of global poverty alleviation," Fahmi said.
He added that relevant countries should learn from China's poverty alleviation experience especially when the number of global impoverished people is constantly growing due to COVID-19, the climate crisis and regional conflicts.
Iraq receives a batch of COVID-19 vaccines donated by the Chinese government at the Baghdad International Airport, Aug. 12, 2021, local time. (Photo courtesy of the Chinese Embassy in Iraq)
China has proposed and is practicing the vision of building a community with a shared future for mankind, bringing opportunities for the world with its own development, Fahmi said. He believes that China and Iraq's joint effort in building the Belt and Road Initiative is an example of the two countries upholding the vision and achieving mutual benefit and common progress.
Today, the cooperation projects between the two countries cover multiple aspects such as the oil industry, communication technology and infrastructure construction, which is important for Iraq's reconstruction.
Since the outbreak of COVID-19, China has dispatched medical expert teams to Iraq and provided batches of medical materials and vaccines to the country, which boosted Iraq's confidence in fighting the disease, Fahmi told People's Daily.
He noted that China, launching wide international anti-pandemic cooperation and actively building a global community of health for all, has made prominent contributions to safeguarding global public health security.
China is always committed to promoting international justice and equity, and to safeguarding and practicing real multilateralism. It has forged a new type of international relations featuring mutual respect, fairness, justice and win-win cooperation, promoted the vision of common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security among nations, and proposed the Global Development Initiative and the Global Security Initiative.
"China has kept its words and set an example for the rest of the world," said Fahmi, citing Xi's remarks that "Major countries should act like major countries. They should provide more global public goods, take up their due responsibilities and live up to people's expectations."
Fahmi extended his congratulations on the success of the 20th CPC National Congress. "The ICP attaches high importance to its friendly relations with the CPC, admires the remarkable achievements made by the Chinese people and appreciates the selfless support and assistance for Iraq from the Chinese side. We are willing to continue deepening exchanges and cooperation with the CPC and work for further development of Iraq-China strategic partnership," he said.
(Web editor: Chang Sha, Du Mingming)
Pepe Escobar gives his thoughts on US Hegemony and it's Perils:
Perfectly in tandem with Putin’s address, the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs chose the geopolitical/existential moment to finally take the gloves off, with a flourish: enter the essay cum report, which became an instant massive hit across Chinese media, examined with relish all across East Asia.
This blistering enumeration of all the Hegemon’s lethal follies, for decades, constitutes a point of no return for trademark Chinese diplomacy, so far characterized by passivity, ambivalence, actual restraint and extreme politeness. So such turnaround is yet another proud “achievement” of the outright Sinophobia and mendacious hostility exhibited by American neocons and neoliberal-cons.
Scholar Quan Le notes that this document may be regarded as the traditional form – but now filled with contemporary wording – the Chinese Sovereigns used in their millenary past before going to war.
The Chinese restore the Mandate of Heaven
All these vectors are evolving as ramifications of the bombing of the Nord Streams, the only military attack – cum industrial terrorism – ever perpetrated against the EU, leave the Collective West paralyzed, dazed and confused.Perfectly in tandem with Putin’s address, the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs chose the geopolitical/existential moment to finally take the gloves off, with a flourish: enter the essay cum report, which became an instant massive hit across Chinese media, examined with relish all across East Asia.
This blistering enumeration of all the Hegemon’s lethal follies, for decades, constitutes a point of no return for trademark Chinese diplomacy, so far characterized by passivity, ambivalence, actual restraint and extreme politeness. So such turnaround is yet another proud “achievement” of the outright Sinophobia and mendacious hostility exhibited by American neocons and neoliberal-cons.
Scholar Quan Le notes that this document may be regarded as the traditional form – but now filled with contemporary wording – the Chinese Sovereigns used in their millenary past before going to war.
It is hardly anything but a deliberate strategic decision to choose passivity either.
By appearing as the victim, China can much more easily invoke its war against US not as a war between two competing hegemons, but a war of global security defense.
Choosing passivity does not strengthen China's geopolitical reach, but it does not hurt its national power either. There is simply nothing besides going to war that US can do which would have a real impact on national strength.
To invoke the examples of history, those sovereigns who took power using only force tend to quickly fall away as well, whereas those who cleverly engineered their rise by casting their opponents as tyrants, were often the ones that could actually form stable empires.
Here is Lula's historic 2019 interview. I wasn't aware that Lula and Pepe were on a first-name basis or that Lula followed Pepe's journalism:
At the time, Lula was still in prison and had no idea when he would be freed, much less if he would run for president again. Here was Lula at his lowest point, when he had no reason to hide his personal views. You can definitely see a difference in the word choice used between the cynic Lula in this interview and the current "diplomatic" President Lula.
He gave some of the most honest insights into how world leaders interact with each other on the international stage. Some of the interesting points:
At the time, Lula was still in prison and had no idea when he would be freed, much less if he would run for president again. Here was Lula at his lowest point, when he had no reason to hide his personal views. You can definitely see a difference in the word choice used between the cynic Lula in this interview and the current "diplomatic" President Lula.
He gave some of the most honest insights into how world leaders interact with each other on the international stage. Some of the interesting points:
- Lula found it difficult to convince Hu's pre-2008 China to invest in Brazil and align itself with BRICS and the Global South.
- In 2010, Lula realized that the US was conducting hybrid warfare against Brazil and proposed an intelligence sharing program with China and Russia, not unlike the Five Eyes system (the coup happened before any such thing was realized).
- Lula and Dilma prioritized nuclear research. Lula bitterly regrets supporting nuclear non-proliferation ("the US has a lot of respect for that little Korean guy... you launch a little missile and the Americans tremble... But not Brazil... They treat Brazil as if we were nothing").
- Hu was very thankful to Lula for defending China's market economy + industrialization at WTO and COP15. Hu (China) and Singh (India) eventually asked Lula to represent them at G8 as a trio of nations, in the first sign of what would become BRICS.
- Obama was an ineffectual president. The State Department ran the ship. Lula practically called him "too simple, sometimes naïve". A Chinese ambassador cussed out Obama in front of his face and he didn't even realize it.
- China initially backed Brazil to join the UN Permanent Security Council, until Brazil proposed for Japan, Germany, and India to also join (the G-4 plan). Japan's inclusion was the deal breaker for China; Lula admitted it was a stupid move in retrospect.
Seems like Lula thought of all the US vassals those three had the most potential to break free and become neutral and join BRICS world order seems like China was right in not fully agreeing with that proposal. Given how Japan and Germany have been put into their place in this post US hegemony world. Not completely sure how or what India is doing maybe they are just laying low and biding for time to grow.