How many times has it to be said that there will be no war? It all comes down to economics. China has the ecomonic and political aces, America has the military aces. Sending a carrier over the Pacific is quite hard when you can not fund the oil for the jets. The populace would not stand for the end of cheap goods, especially not the current MTV generation. Quite a few transnational corporations do business in China, and Walmart relies on it. If they fall, what happens to the populace?
Anti-Carrier Trump Card
- Thread starter Chairman Hu
- Start date
H5N1 said:
1. China military expansion - I agree with you somewhat. China seems to be actually contracting while modernizing some of their military. PLAAF is a good example. Thousands of less capable J-7's and such are being taken out while PLAAF will field a smaller number of more capable SU-30 MKK's and J-10's. But in fairness, I would say China is expanding their missiles opposite Taiwan. So your conclusion is not totally a fair assessment.
2. China unbalancing the region - I would have to say adding Kilos, Sukhoi jets, and hundreds of SRBM and IRBM's every year unbalances the region completely. But to be fair to China, modernizing does not in and of itself do this alone. That's just the trade-off. Not necessarily a negative thing though.
3. China blocking shipping lanes - I've never heard this charge leveled....anywhere. Could you provide links?
4. China and Russia as axis power - Again, I've never seen and OFFICIAL charge leveled here. Just because the U.S. highlighted these exercises with "interest", does not mean they charge them with anything.
5. Human rights - At least in the USA I can choose any religion I see fit. If Catholic, I can acknowledge the teachings from the Vatican. I can stand out in front of the White House cursing G.W. Bush, calling for his downfall. I'd love to see anybody in China stand out in Beijing calling Hu Jintao a criminal that should be deposed. The USA smells like roses compared to China in this area. Nuff' said!
@TJJH - I agree there will be no war. But China does not hold the entire economic ace alone. Both China and the USA share this trump card. You see, China needs American markets to keep her economy growing. The U.S. needs China economically for the same reason. They provide us with cost-effective durable goods. China is an economic partner and we need eachother. The USA could hurt China's economy also.
You talk about the MTV generation not standing for the end of cheap goods. Have you heard of CAFTA? Alot of those Chinese manufacturing jobs will be going to Latin America.....not all of them though. Cheap goods will continue to flow here. But more and more will flow from Latin America. And I believe China would lose the political ace with an out-and-out invasion of Taiwan. THAT would be an illegal invasion. Before you give me the "Iraq was illegal" nonsense, go read U.N. Resolution 1441.
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Sea Dog said:
I mentioned on another thread the following about the PLAN and its overall reduction in numbers meaning that there is no "buildup" going on.
While this is true pure numbers, in terms of ongoing shipbuilding it is most certainly not true. The PLAN is embarked on a phenominal shipbuilding program of new, modern combatants. Certainly adding new hulls at a faster rate than any other nation on earth at the present time, and perhaps at a faster rate than any time since World War II.
So, while they are retiring older ships at a fast pace, they are adding very capable, new, modern combatants at a pace more rapid than anyone else right now.
I haven't checked, but the same type of scenario may also hold in other areas (ie. Mechanized forces, air forces, ballistic missiles, etc.)
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MIGleader
Banned Idiot
sea dog, if you stand in fron of the white house and curse oat george bush, no one will do anything. yeah right. youll get arrested, hassled, then realeased to be hassled by the cia at home, and then you might find that you lost your job and your house burnt down...trust me, its happend to people before.
MIGleader said:
Really? Could you name someone this has happened to or post a story? I'm serious.
I know that generally in the US as long as you keep the protest peaceful and do not block public access(keep moving) you can picket or protest anything you want.
Everyday on Tv you see various different people lambasting the Prestdent. I don't think all these people had their houses burned down, lost their jobs or were hasseled by the CIA. Because if they wee they would immediatley be on the news..i.e. CNN, FOX, MSNBC, CBS, 20 20, 60 minutes etc...Why? Because those type of stories are worth a lot of money to the person involved and the networks.
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
bd popeye said:
From the history channel: ok, in the 70s, there was a man named samuel byke. you may know him as the man who tried to kill nixon. before he actually tried to kill nixon, he hated him. at a bar, byke said some thing bad about nixon(not a threat). someone overheard and squealed, and the cia came and hassled him. he proteseted nixon in front of the white house(no threats), and again got hassled. he never really had a good jhob, and now found it even harder to get one.
just for interest...he tried to hijack a plane and crash it into the white house, but got thwarted by security. i wish he had suceeded. nixon was a basterd.
more...in the sixties, a man claimed he had seen aliens land, and he constantly talked about it. the government told him to shut up, but he didnt. he actully defied them and publicly announced aliens were real. he lost his job the next day, and his house burnt.
americans like to think they have th right to protest, but what happenend to kids who protested during vietnam? LBJ send the national guard to tear gas em, and later, many were killed.
china mistreats its tibetians? what about the u.s, and the 1950's and 60's? black people potesting for rights got jailed, had their houses vandalized, were attacked by police dogs, and often killed.
now, you may say this is the past of the u.s, but isnt tiananmen the past of china too?
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Hi MIGleader. I'm sorry, but your solitary example of government abuse pales in comparison to China's Human Rights violations in the 1970's. It pales in comparison to modern China today. The facts are, that you are free to completely trash President GW Bush in the USA....anywhere, and anytime you want. Did you happen to see the angry protests out in Washington DC a couple of weeks back? There were both thousands of GW Bush supporters and protesters out there speaking there mind.
I can guarantee you that nobody.....NOBODY in China has any right to criticize Hu Jintao or the other party leadership of China. Go down to Beijing and demand China stop referring to Taiwan as a part of China. Better yet, call for Taiwan independance right in the middle of Beijing. Basically you can't compare the USA to China here. The USA is golden compared to China in Human rights and freedoms.
I can guarantee you that nobody.....NOBODY in China has any right to criticize Hu Jintao or the other party leadership of China. Go down to Beijing and demand China stop referring to Taiwan as a part of China. Better yet, call for Taiwan independance right in the middle of Beijing. Basically you can't compare the USA to China here. The USA is golden compared to China in Human rights and freedoms.
Sure, you can criticize the president, but look at what happen to those people. They suffer so much heat from the media that they have to apologize. With the exception of Michael Moore, but he has thick skin.Sea Dog said:
tphuang said:
Name one person who is suffering as a result of criticizing President Bush. Just one. The facts are, you can't. Meanwhile, let's see you go to Beijing and call for Taiwan's independance. Let's see you go there with a poster of Hu Jintao with the word "CRIMINAL" painted on it. Yeah.....thought so.
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