All is not what it seems within China's High Speed Rail development.

Spartan95

Junior Member
It seems there is now a different take on the high speed rail developments in PRC by its own leadership:

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China high-speed rail lines halted over violations
– Thu May 19, 6:51 am ET

SHANGHAI (AFP) – China has ordered one high-speed rail line to stop running and halted the construction of another due to violations of environmental protection laws.

The move marked the latest setback for China's high-speed links after Beijing sacked railways minister Liu Zhijun in February for allegedly taking more than 800 million yuan ($121 million) in kickbacks.

Liu's alleged graft was reportedly linked to contracts for high-speed rail expansion and the scandal raised concerns that the network was growing too fast at the expense of safety.

The Ministry of Environmental Protection has ordered a halt to construction of a line linking the northern cities of Tianjin and Qinhuangdao because its route had been changed without approval, said a statement posted Wednesday on the ministry's website.

It also ordered a line in eastern Shandong province linking Qingdao and Jinan to stop running because it has not yet passed an environmental assessment, according to an order on the website dated April 25.

Liu's successor, Sheng Guangzu, has said trains would run at slower speeds -- 300 kilometres (185 miles) per hour instead of 350 kph -- than originally planned to make the lines safer and more affordable.

China also said it would cut railway investment this year after a massive push to expand the high-speed network also raised worry over the government's heavy debt burden, state media reported.

Ma Jun, director of the Institute of Public and Environmental Affairs, a non-governmental organisation, said the suspensions could be a sign that environmental assessments are being taken more seriously.

"Many projects started construction before getting evaluations, and some evaluations did not recognise potential risks to the environment," he was quoted as saying by the China Daily.

He said the results of such assessments can be influenced by developers and local governments in China pursuing economic development.

I don't think the long term plan to expand PRC's high speed rail will be changed. However, the pace of the expansion seems to be under scrutiny now. And interestingly, environmental protection is being emphasized.
 

defaultuser1

Banned Idiot
I've read that China's high speed trains may simply be copies of foreign trains and run at higher speeds. The trains they are copied from are also capable of those speeds, but they do not run that fast for safety reasons.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
No it is not a copy In 80's China bought high speed train from Germany and Japan with technology transfer . But the maximum speed of those train is limited to 200km/hr.

The one that china built now is 300km/hr and up. So it is further developmet from the one imported in the 80. Braking and signalling,control and even boogey design are different no doubt they are heavily influence by the foreign technology.

Anyway here is rebuttal to the critic of High speed train
The author statement mirror my conviction that Infrastructure development should not be judged by profit only there are other social benefit that can be derived building road or rail
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Another Misinformed Commentary on China's High-Speed Rail

By Adam Mayer

As we've pointed out here on China Urban Development, there is no lack of misinformation about China in the Western media. This has been the case for many years and will likely continue into the future. Predicting the collapse of China has even become a career for some pundits.

I started a site (
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) to offer a fresh perspective differing from most Western writers in that I actually live in China and work in an industry directly related to the country's development. I have no illusions that China will transform itself to be more 'democratic' like the West, nor do I think that the West needs to copy China's top-down development model to compete economically. What works in one culture will not necessarily work in another.

That being said, some of the negative commentary about China's ambitions is due at least in part to a poverty of ambition in the West. The latest example of this is an article from Washington Post editorial writer Charles Lane. Lane visited China for a few days recently and became an expert on the country's high-speed rail system after taking a trip on the line from Beijing to Tianjin (a city he self-admittedly had never heard of).

Lane's commentary reflects a common misunderstanding about China and its ambitions. He applies the same argument to China as detractors of high-speed rail in the U.S. when he states:

"The fact is that China's train wreck was eminently foreseeable. High-speed rail is a capital-intensive undertaking that requires huge borrowing upfront to finance tracks, locomotives and cars, followed by years in which ticket revenue covers debt service - if all goes well."

Lane comes from the libertarian point of view in that he insists every new piece of infrastructure must turn a quick profit, or else it is a waste of taxpayer money. To be sure, the position against high-speed rail holds some weight in the U.S. where the low-density nature of most of its urban landscape may not justify the high public expenditure of high-speed rail.

Yet China is building high-speed rail under a completely different set of circumstances. For one, China is still urbanizing substantially, creating a growing demand for high-speed intercity rail network. In addition, the country's domestic air travel market continues to expand upon an already strained network.

Perhaps the most ridiculous part of Lane's piece is the story he cherry-picked of a 17-year old migrant girl he meets on a bus returning from Tianjin back to Beijing. Learning that she has never heard of the high-speed train and that she wouldn't be able to afford a ticket, Lane concludes from this one example that high-speed rail is out of reach financially for the majority of Chinese people.

Reading that a 17-year old girl is not able to afford a high-speed train ticket in China is not surprising. What is surprising is that Lane ignores the growing reality of a Chinese middle-class that will gladly pay for the convenience and efficiency of high-speed rail. I would even be willing to bet that after a few years in the workforce, the 17-year old migrant girl would be able to afford a ticket if she so chooses to use the high-speed line as a means of transport in the future.

In the end, Lane says that China should envy the U.S. for not investing in high-speed rail. This is a laughable conclusion. Lane misses the bigger picture (more likely due to his ideological short-sightedness rather than his short visit to China) about the country's ambitions.

China's leaders don't care if high-speed rail will ever be 'profitable'. Were the aqueducts that supported cities in the Roman Empire turning a quick profit? How about the U.S Interstate Highway System? Gas and automobile taxes barely covers it these days as more highways turn into toll roads in America.

Great infrastructure projects throughout history are not built for quick profit but rather to strengthen economies and enhance the quality of life for people. In the long-run, China's high-speed rail system will do just this as it unites the country's urban areas, making mobility more convenient for its people.

(The author is an American Architect based in Chengdu, Sichuan province.)
 
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kyanges

Junior Member
He makes a good point in saying that the point is improving the quality of life for the people, but I also think that being profitable helps with keeping that project sustainable. I mean, if it's not profitable, then the only way it'll be paid and maintained is through subsidies, which means more money from the government, and where does the government get its money from again?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
He makes a good point in saying that the point is improving the quality of life for the people, but I also think that being profitable helps with keeping that project sustainable. I mean, if it's not profitable, then the only way it'll be paid and maintained is through subsidies, which means more money from the government, and where does the government get its money from again?

Well the land along the rail track or adjacent to it will appreciated once the rail track is built. That is how most transit authority make their money. Not to mention that city along the track will generate more bussiness due to access to rail and convenience . So it is hard to quantify the benefit of infrastructure . You got multiplying effect in the economy. But most critic are oblivious to the benefit of infrastructure and quick to pounche on unprofitability of the project citing anectdotal or irrelevant proof.

Not to mention intangible benefit like reduce consumption of gasoline , Less working hour lost in traffic jam, Wear and tear on the car. less money allocated to highway building and attending loss of productive land,Affordable houses in suburb,less crowding inthe city on and on
 
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defaultuser1

Banned Idiot
Well the land along the rail track or adjacent to it will appreciated once the rail track is built. That is how most transit authority make their money. Not to mention that city along the track will generate more bussiness due to access to rail and convenience . So it is hard to quantify the benefit of infrastructure . You got multiplying effect in the economy. But most critic are oblivious to the benefit of infrastructure and quick to pounche on unprofitability of the project citing anectdotal or irrelevant proof.

Not to mention intangible benefit like reduce consumption of gasoline , Less working hour lost in traffic jam, Wear and tear on the car. less money allocated to highway building and attending loss of productive land,Affordable houses in suburb,less crowding inthe city on and on
I think it would only appreciate if there was a train station... why would it appreciate if it was just track? If anything, without a station it would likely decrease the value because you've got a huge train track cutting across your land.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I meant figuratively speaking not literally. Off course I meant the land close to station

Thats all fine, but surely it can be a little overdone?

I believe there are more than 10 fully built and uninhabited cities with more coming on stream every year. Unabated rail development could add many more of these ghost cities.

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jwangyue

Junior Member
I am a bit skeptical about the report above. Specifically to the claim of there are over 64.5 Million unoccupied apartment.

Two observations were made by CLSA,

#1, this 64.5 Million empty apartment # was estimated from "power meter reading" from the National power transmission company. The very source denied such data even exit.

#2, "64.5 Million is a sum greater the total number of flats sold since the establishment of China's commercial housing market"

In face From 2000-2010, total new home sales over this 10 year period was 48.4 Million units. Go figure
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I am a bit skeptical about the report above. Specifically to the claim of there are over 64.5 Million unoccupied apartment.

Two observations were made by CLSA,

#1, this 64.5 Million empty apartment # was estimated from "power meter reading" from the National power transmission company. The very source denied such data even exit.

#2, "64.5 Million is a sum greater the total number of flats sold since the establishment of China's commercial housing market"

In face From 2000-2010, total new home sales over this 10 year period was 48.4 Million units. Go figure

While I also have trouble with the stated number of unoccupied apartments, the fact is ,evidence clearly points to the existence of ghost cities . The question is why?
 
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