2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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Broccoli

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Amnesty International says that it has gathered "graphic and compelling evidence of savage beatings and other torture" by pro-Russian separatist groups in eastern Ukraine.

The human rights group says that protesters and journalists have been targeted over the last three months.

An Amnesty report, Abductions and Torture in Eastern Ukraine, says that hundreds of people have been abducted.

Pro-government forces also committed a smaller number of abuses, Amnesty says.

Ukraine's military has made significant gains in recent days.
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Russian rebel commander Strelkov ordered all men between 18-55 to fight or face a punishment yesterday, they didn't say how people who refuse would be punished.
 
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SampanViking

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Russian rebel commander Strelkov ordered all men between 18-55 to fight or face a punishment yesterday, they didn't say how people who refuse would be punished.
Ho Hum

I realise Broccoli, that the anti Russian side have had little to cheer about about in the last few months, so not surprisingly have to make the most of the little they get, but I have to say that if I and others more supportive of the Pro Russians posted every picture of wrecked Ukrainian Armour and Aircraft posted on the net or repeated every unsubstantiated rumour published, then this thread would be twice the size and each page take half an hour to load.

The facts of Slavyansk is that it took the Ukrainians three months to concentrate effective firepower and beseige this relatively small city. Despite massive damage by continual artillery and air attacks against residential areas, they were unable to storm the city and crush and the rebel force inside. Instead, Strelkov and his men and their families were able to break out, for very little cost and retreat in good order towards Donetsk.

I read a couple of pages of the article you linked from LA Times. Now I have been following the main Russian media closely since this crisis started: RT, Itar Tass, Ria Novosti and Voice of Russia. I have to say that I did not recognise any of the examples quoted from any article I have read and so it seems most likely that the article itself is simply disinformation.

Today we have Amnesty wading in. with a nice shiny report prepared no doubt at its plush and very well financed offices at the Empire State building. Interesting timing, as it comes the day after Russia presented its own "White Book" record of Human Rights abuses in Ukraine to the OSCE. This and of course the failure of Amnesty to regard prolonged artillery and Air attacks against Civilians as a Human Rights abuse, does raise questions about its impartiality and independence.

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Finally you finish with an unsubstantiated allegation and not even a link to support it.
This again follows a widely published interview with Strelkov in which he announces that he is offering salaries to all militia men, who previously had been volunteers.

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While waging what increasingly resembles guerrilla warfare, Strelkov has said he wants to transform the rebels into a regular standing army with a unified command. The rebel leadership also said this week it will pay its soldiers monthly salaries of $500 to $700.
A fact not hidden, even by an anti Russian cheerleader UK paper.

Anyway to show that the fight is far from over
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Up to thirty Ukrainian troops killed and dozens wounded in a pro Russian grad artillery attack in Lugansk.
Guess the wind must have dropped there today and prevented blow back.
 
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Broccoli

Junior Member
Anti-Russian? I suppose you are for some odd reason pro-Russian then. I live in 300 km away from Russian border so I see things little bit differently because I have to live near Russians and we Finns know their mentality quite well.



According to rebel interviewed by Vice they suffered heavy casualties when retreating from Slavyansk, so apparently i'm not only person here spreading propaganda. 2:15 ---->
Video link removed by Sampanviking on account of inappropriate and graphic content


Things are clearly going really well for the pro-Russian terrorists.

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SampanViking

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As you can see I have removed the video link. This is not because it disclosed information that must be shared with the outside world, but on account of the graphic content which is not appropriate for this forum.
In fact the video imparted very little actual information of any value.
Nobody denies that the Pro Russians suffered casualties as they broke the siege, but nobody is claiming that the numbers killed were substantial. I am also sure that had the casualties been heavy, that the fact and numbers would have loudly crowed by Kiev and its supporters.
The have not been and so I am sure we can draw our own conclusions.
We also saw video footage, widely distributed on the web, of a large and varied armoured column enter Donetsk on Saturday, which rather bears out Strelkov's account.

One last point Broccoli, comments such as "All Russians are" and "I know there character" are most definitely racist and also against the rules of the forum. I would strongly advise that you keep them to yourself. Likewise members have been suspended for calling Pro Kiev fighters Nazis, the same sanction can easily be applied to calling Pro Russian fighters terrorists.
 
Anti-Russian? I suppose you are for some odd reason pro-Russian then. I live in 300 km away from Russian border so I see things little bit differently because I have to live near Russians and we Finns know their mentality quite well.



According to rebel interviewed by Vice they suffered heavy casualties when retreating from Slavyansk, so apparently i'm not only person here spreading propaganda. 2:15 ---->



Things are clearly going really well for the pro-Russian terrorists.

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Proximity most definitely gives you a much clearer perspective, and I fully appreciate both yours and Jura's perspective, after nearly 50 years of observing this little square dance, litstening to civil defense flyers, talking about bomb shelters, and living under the shadow of Russian ICBMs and within the field of our own ICBMS, spending a little time in the "hidden Hilton" on LRAFB, several years after Little Rock retired the B-58s and became home to the Minute Man IIs, anyone who ignores the threat of Russian malevolence against Georgia or Ukraine, really has a real ignorance of history, and the Russian preoccupation with restoring the old soviet system..... The Sino Defense forum really should demand a little more circumspect view. Not saying I'm anti-Russian, because I'm most definitely not, but neither am I going to stick my head in the sand, and leave my hindermost parts exposed, as our old buddy who used to post Russian advertising propaganda as aerodynamic science, I guess I would suggest that folks not drink the kool-aid????
 
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SampanViking

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More info on the Grad attack yesterday at Zelenopillya

It seems that the targeting of the precise Ukrainian unit was no coincidence as it was no less than the Lvov battalion of the new Privately funded National Guard and a unit particularly associated with the Right Sector.
A particular bogey man then for the Pro Russian side.

Fatality figures vary from twenty to over a hundred, depending on the source and the the wounded figure also varies from 100 to several hundred. Looking at the pictures all estimates seem reasonable.

Images have been released of the aftermath and this has led some commentators to speculate that the type of damage inflicted and the lack of craters in the ground, indicate that the munitions used were 9M 217 - a smart anti armour system.
If it is, it certainly works!


Courtesy of splav.org



 

Broccoli

Junior Member
This looks like a clear signal to Kiev: You can't win militarily. Let's talk.
Ukrainian army is advancing as we speak and you think they stop right now? If everyone stopped fighting after suffering few casualties all wars would be very short. Ukrainian legal government has to continue their advances as it's their job.
 

delft

Brigadier
Ukrainian army is advancing as we speak and you think they stop right now? If everyone stopped fighting after suffering few casualties all wars would be very short. Ukrainian legal government has to continue their advances as it's their job.
I understand the unit hit didn't belong to the army but to the National Guard militia.
 
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delft

Brigadier
The website of my favorite radio station carries the news that the Ukrainian gas company Naftogaz has stopped its supply to 36 Ukrainian gas distribution companies in the hope to make them pay bills at the value of EURO 350m. These companies supply millns of people. Among the companies hit are those that distribute gas to Kiev, Charkov en Poltava. These are politically pretty significant places. No wonder Poroshenko is blustering.
 
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