2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos


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bd popeye

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By MARIA DANILOVA and YURAS KARMANAU

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — As thick black smoke rose from the barricades encircling the protest camp in central Kiev, a tense calm descended Wednesday over the capital and the European Union threatened sanctions against Ukraine following deadly violence between riot police and protesters in which at least 25 people died and 241 were injured..

The violence on Tuesday was the worst in nearly three months of anti-government protests that have paralyzed Ukraine's capital in a struggle over the identity of a nation divided in loyalties between Russia and the West, and the worst in the country's post-Soviet history. The Kremlin said it put the next disbursement of its bailout on hold amid uncertainty over Ukraine's future and what it described as a "coup attempt"; it criticized the West for the escalation of violence.

The Health Ministry said 25 people died in the clashes, some from gunshot wounds, and Kiev hospitals were struggling to treat hundreds of injured. Activists also set-up a makeshift medical unit inside an landmark Orthodox Church not far from the camp, where volunteer medics were taking care of the wounded.
 

Jeff Head

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Not good.

The EU and US on one side, Russia on the other. I hope it settles out and stops soon before there is any escalation by outside forces of any kind.

God's blessings of comfort to all of the families of the dead and injured.
 

solarz

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Not good.

The EU and US on one side, Russia on the other. I hope it settles out and stops soon before there is any escalation by outside forces of any kind.

God's blessings of comfort to all of the families of the dead and injured.
It sounds like there are irreconcilable differences between the pro-West and the pro-Russia factions in Ukraine.

This incident is reminiscent of Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood. What do you do in a democracy when one faction refuses to respect the results of an election and take to the streets?

When something similar happened in the US (Occupy Wallstreet), the US media went into overdrive to censor demonize the protestors, painting them as lazy slacks who don't even know what they want. This tactic, supplemented by copious amounts of police muscle, worked, and OWS was successfully dispelled.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

It sounds like there are irreconcilable differences between the pro-West and the pro-Russia factions in Ukraine.
Incorrect. There is irreconcilable difference between pro-west fraction in Ukraine and Russia, not between pro-west fraction and pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine. Left largely to their own considerations and devices the Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine would succumb to pro-west fraction in Ukraine. Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine have much less to lose from integration between Ukraine and EU then Ro-Western fraction in Ukraine have to lose from continued dominance of Ukraine by Russia. So if it was the pro-west fraction in Ukraine that is in power today, Pro-Russian fraction would never be able to geather the drive or rally the magnitude of popular support to oppose integration with EU comparable to pro-West fraction is able to do in support of integration with EU.

But Russia has far more to lose from integration between Ukraine and EU than Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine. Therefore Russia have given, and will continue to give, Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine unconditional and virtually unlimited backing in order to maintain Russian sphere of influence at any cost short of outright invasion. The Pro-Russian fraction is able to take a hardline now only because they are in power, have control of state security apparatus, and because Russia have given, and will continue to give, Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine unconditional and virtually unlimited backing.

Even so the scale only appear to hang in balance because given the current political and economic considerations, the EU and the US is not in a position to back pro-west fraction in Ukraine the similar unconditional and virtually unlimited backing as Russia is giving to the Pro-Russian fraction.
 
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solarz

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Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Incorrect. There is irreconcilable difference between pro-west fraction in Ukraine and Russia, not between pro-west fraction and pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine. Left largely to their own considerations and devices the Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine would succumb to pro-west fraction in Ukraine. Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine have much less to lose from integration between Ukraine and EU then Ro-Western fraction in Ukraine have to lose from continued dominance of Ukraine by Russia. So if it was the pro-west fraction in Ukraine that is in power today, Pro-Russian fraction would never be able to geather the drive or rally the magnitude of popular support to oppose integration with EU comparable to pro-West fraction is able to do in support of integration with EU.

But Russia has far more to lose from integration between Ukraine and EU than Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine. Therefore Russia have given, and will continue to give, Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine unconditional and virtually unlimited backing in order to maintain Russian sphere of influence at any cost short of outright invasion. The Pro-Russian fraction is able to take a hardline now only because they are in power, have control of state security apparatus, and because Russia have given, and will continue to give, Pro-Russian fraction in Ukraine unconditional and virtually unlimited backing.

Even so the scale only appear to hang in balance because given the current political and economic considerations, the EU and the US is not in a position to back pro-west fraction in Ukraine the similar unconditional and virtually unlimited backing as Russia is giving to the Pro-Russian fraction.
First of all, it's faction. F-A-C-T-I-O-N.

Secondly, have you considered that maybe, just maybe, the pro-Russian faction doesn't want to "succumb" to the pro-west faction? Maybe they actually have a reason to support further integration with Russia?

Regardless, do you think it is democratic for a faction, any faction, to ignore the results of an election and take actions that debilitate their society?
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
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1. No one wants to succumb, and someone has to succumb, and politics is all about who is more resistant to succumbing, and most successful at succumbing the least. If it were not for Russia's backing, there is no doubt pro-Russian fraction, with less to lose by succumbing, will succumb first.

2. Ukraine had not ever been a real functionling democracy. But if it were, then you must recognize real democracy is not a suicide pact for the abtract ideologue. It is a form of governance with both legal and structual insurances for its own survival. A democracy that respects an outcome which subjugates the society to autocracy is not democracy in the functional sense, but an idiotocracy.

3. Finally, about nitpicking the errors of auto-correction, put a sock in it.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

1. No one wants to succumb, and someone has to succumb, and politics is all about who is more resistant to succumbing, and most successful at succumbing the least. If it were not for Russia's backing, there is no doubt pro-Russian fraction, with less to lose by succumbing, will succumb first.

2. Ukraine had not ever been a real functionling democracy. But if it were, then you must recognize real democracy is not a suicide pact for the abtract ideologue. It is a form of governance with both legal and structual insurances for its own survival. A democracy that respects an outcome which subjugates the society to autocracy is not democracy in the functional sense, but an idiotocracy.

3. Finally, about nitpicking the errors of auto-correction, put a sock in it.
1. Why do you assume the pro-Russian faction has less to lose?

2. Whatever happened to waiting for the next election?
 
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Equation

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It looks like the two side had finally reach a truce...for now.

Ukraine president, protest leaders agree on truce

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plawolf

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Its a tired and tested tactic for the west to publically urge clam while egging on anti-government protestors in private in countries they don't like and then use the ensuing chaos and violence as excuses to apply sanctions or even intervene directly militarily.

Orderly protest to convey a point is fine, but when that protest turns to try and disrupt the normal operations of society and the country as a means to blackmail the government into caving in to their demands, the protests need to be disperses for the good of society.

The police should use non lethal force to do that, but if the protestors are hurling petrol bombs and actively attacking police, then they only have themselves to blame if they get shot in the eye.

Go throw petrol bombs at police in America and see where that gets you if you think that comment is harsh.
 

bd popeye

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I will post a link to the photos and news items in the Ukraine.

The violence perpetrated by both sides of this situation is horrible.

WARNING!! Extreme photos & videos!! The links in the article are NSFW!!!!!!! You have been warned!!!

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