2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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Equation

Lieutenant General
First, Brussels makes no decision on who joins the EU. It's up to member states to agree. Second, the road to membership is a long one. There are things that he can do simply to take a few steps along the road. And the EU will probably be happy to allow Ukraine to take those steps. It helps show confidence in Ukraine, whilst also showing Russia it can't treat the country like its own backyard.

That could also back fired if the EU takes too long to allow Ukraine become a member, that leaves Russia an opportunity to bring it back in into its sphere of influence. If they make membership too quickly and easily for Ukraine just to spite Russia than they'll risk losing Turkey as a NATO ally member in the long run as well as economically. Turkey will see this as a slap in the face to them, for they have been trying for years to get in but still get snubbed meanwhile an economically weaker Ukraine gets in just like that all just to spite Russia. Member state has to be very careful in their process of negotiation on the matter as well as decision making.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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I suspect that in the wake of the European Elections just finished, that EU states; especially net contributors, will be very wary of admitting a large, new and very needy member.

In the UK, the elections have been won by the UK Independence Party (UKIP). In the run up to the elections, the UKIP leader caused a furore within the established parties by saying that he admired Putin. Shortly afterwards the UK's deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the Liberal Democrat Party, Nick Clegg, went head to head with Farage on two live TV debates. Clegg tried to make Capital out of Farage's Putin remark but made no headway. Clegg also presented himself as leader of the most pro EU party in the UK. Most pundits agreed that Farage wiped the floor with him in the debate. The Lib Dems have been almost wiped out in the EU Parliament.

I have no doubt that Farage has tapped into a deep undercurrent of British sentiment that has no intention of going against Russia just for the benefit of The Ukraine or EU enlargement. It seems that similar undercurrents are very strong in other Western European States, judging from the results.
 

delft

Brigadier
Ambassador Bhadrakumar's comments:
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A chocolate king rolls back new Cold War


The presidential election in Ukraine on Sunday promises to be a turning point in the Ukraine crisis. Both the West, especially Europe, and Russia peered down the abyss, didn’t like what they saw and would appear to be gradually pulling back in tandem, which in turn is investing the outcome of Sunday’s election with much importance.

The frontrunner in Sunday’s poll is the 48-year old “chocolate king” Petro Poroshenko, a billionaire who fits into the classic mould of the oligarch who made it real big out of the debris of the former Soviet Union — buying languishing state assets cheap, turning them into gold and amassing a fortune overnight to become a robber-baron wielding political power.
Poroshenko has an overall reputation of being “pro-Western” but in the former Soviet space increasingly, such descriptions have become meaningless. He served as foreign minister in the government that was formed after the color revolution in 2005. But he later served as foreign trade minister under the “pro-Russian” president Viktor Yanukovich.
The only constancy in his career lies hidden in the subsoil. He kept connections throughout with Russia — both in terms of business interests and in personal contacts with the Russian elites, including possibly with the Kremlin. True, the Russian state media lately kept up a tirade against Poroshenko, casting him in very poor light as an oligarch and an opportunist. But then, it could have been smoke and mirrors as well.
Interestingly, his main opponent in Sunday’s election Yulia Tymoshenko, the glamor girl of the Orange Revolution, has accused Poroshenko of being Moscow’s fifth column and that his is doing roaring business with Russia. (Ironically, former prime minister Tymoshenko herself also has a lingering reputation of having been a favorite of the Kremlin, and of having made her fortune largely via Ukraine’s opaque gas deals with Russia’s energy leviathan Gazprom.)
Conceivably, Moscow may have waged a “psywar” and succeeded in nudging Poroshenko closer toward a “centrist” position, which in Ukraine’s circumstances today would mean he is utterly free to remain “pro-Western” but would be expected to remain sensitive to Russia’s core interests nonetheless.
Thus, Poroshenko lately began speaking of the likelihood of Ukraine’s European Union membership circa 2025, but firmly puts aside the possibility of Ukraine’s membership of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in any conceivable future.
Indeed, Poroshenko exudes confidence (for reasons best known to him) that if he were elected president, within three months thereafter, he’ll have mended Ukraine’s tattered ties with Russia. The German media reports speak of him enjoying a warm friendship with the Russian ambassador in Kiev, and being an Orthodox Christian (although often accused of being a Jew by ultra-right Ukrainian nationalists), he often makes pilgrimages to Russian monasteries.
Thus, all in all, in Poroshenko, we’d have someone unique whom the West could consider as “our man in Kiev”, but with whom Russia looks forward to doing business with. There seems to be a tacit recognition of ground rules emerging between the West and Russia over the presidency of Poroshenko, which would in turn explain the overall lowering of rhetoric by both sides lately and Moscow’s decision to allow Sunday’s election to go ahead.
To ease the tensions ahead of Sunday’s poll, President Vladimir Putin has ordered the withdrawal of the Russian troops from Ukraine’s eastern border.
What could the “Poroshenko formula” between the West and Russia look like? The WaPo columnist David Ignatius wrote last week about the “Finlandization” of Ukraine as the buzzword in the Washington circuit, and it seems to approximate to a settlement.
In a nutshell, Ukraine shall have the freedom in theory to make its own choices as any sovereign country would have, but having said that, Kiev would also be trusted to know what is good for itself as regards its future relations with Russia.
What makes such an agreeable outcome possible? First and foremost, Russia took a forceful stance that it wouldn’t accept the regime change in Kiev (which the West sponsored whilst President Vladimir Putin was preoccupied with the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics.)
Moscow dug in, insisting it has legitimate interests, historically speaking as well as politically and culturally and in the economic sphere, and intended to safeguard them no matter what it takes. Most important, Moscow displayed that it holds the trump cards and a stabilization of Ukraine is impossible without Russia’s cooperation.
Equally, it became clear to the West that the alternative to accommodating Russia would be a path to confrontation, with the high risk it entailed insofar as Ukraine could become a failed state at Europe’s doorstep. Clearly, the West has no stomach to undertake a military intervention, nor does it have the financial wherewithal to salvage the debt-ridden Ukrainian economy. The EU is far from ready to absorb new members, either.
However, what counted significantly is also the interdependency that has developed between the major European powers, especially Germany, on the one side and Russia on the other in the post-cold war setting.
However much Washington tried to assert its cold-war era leadership of the Euro-Atlantic space, it failed to gain the traction needed for effectively isolating Russia from the Europeans.
Behind the stage, Germany worked diligently to ease tensions. Putin operated at multiple levels in Berlin to ward off the cold warriors in the US, bringing into play his range of contacts in German business and industry and among politicians.
If a Ukraine settlement holds — the pitfalls are many, given the trust deficit in US-Russia ties — the credit also goes to the “Obama Doctrine”. President Obama left the Kremlin with an existential choice — if Russia opted for military intervention in Ukraine, it would encounter no “enemy”.
Posted in Diplomacy, Politics.

Tagged with New Cold War, Ukraine crisis.

By M K Bhadrakumar – May 23, 2014
 

delft

Brigadier
At this time the economy of the EU is hardly growing, if at all. The US economy seems to be declining. Help from outside the Atlantic region is not to be expected. So very nearly no one in the European capitals will want to subsidize Kiev for a possible membership of the EU already in 2025 ( sic ). The only possibility for future growth is to develop an economy area "From Lisbon to Vladivostok" as Putin called it which will also mean from Trondheim to Singapore or even from Reykjavik to Merauke.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
About the provisional election results, it's being reported that the two right-wing candidates (Dmytro Yarosh and Oleh Tyahnybok) got less than 2% of the vote between them.

So Russia Today and the pro-Kremlin media have been screaming "Nazis overrun Ukraine!" for the last several months, and the right-wingers can't even get a piddling 2% of the vote?

I suppose the fascists all got confused and thought the election was today or something? Or maybe the "NAZIS!" headlines were just Russian propaganda.

Hmm, I wonder which one it was...

Turkey will see this as a slap in the face to them, for they have been trying for years to get in

Turkey has big problems with getting Greece to agree, but more importantly Ankara has blown hot and cold over EU membership for some time. The biggest issue is the increasingly autocratic style of the current PM, which is causing concern. But Ukraine is still a long way off joining the EU, a very long way off - and Turkey is much further down the road.
 

delft

Brigadier
OT
The biggest problem for Turkish EU membership is the inability of the EU to absorb another large country. At this time the largest size that might be managed would be another Malta. At the same time many large parties in European countries not just the anti-EU parties but more importantly religiously oriented parties as for example the German CDU and CSU are opposed to the accession of a country with about 100 million Muslims.
Ukraine has few Muslims but its population is about halve the size of Turkey's so it is by far to large to become a member.
 

solarz

Brigadier
About the provisional election results, it's being reported that the two right-wing candidates (Dmytro Yarosh and Oleh Tyahnybok) got less than 2% of the vote between them.

So Russia Today and the pro-Kremlin media have been screaming "Nazis overrun Ukraine!" for the last several months, and the right-wingers can't even get a piddling 2% of the vote?

I suppose the fascists all got confused and thought the election was today or something? Or maybe the "NAZIS!" headlines were just Russian propaganda.

Hmm, I wonder which one it was...

As has been mentioned, this was the presidential election. The claims of fascists running the Ukrainian government is aimed toward the Ukrainian parliament, and one of the criticisms leveled was specifically the fact that the people running the show there are unelected.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
As has been mentioned, this was the presidential election. The claims of fascists running the Ukrainian government is aimed toward the Ukrainian parliament...
The fact remains. That in national elections, the two candidates with such tendencies got less than 2% of the vote combined. That pretty much says it right there.

It is clear that as voting goes on, both at the national, and at the provincial level, that such movements have little support whatsoever in the Ukraine.
 

solarz

Brigadier
The fact remains. That in national elections, the two candidates with such tendencies got less than 2% of the vote combined. That pretty much says it right there.

It is clear that as voting goes on, both at the national, and at the provincial level, that such movements have little support whatsoever in the Ukraine.

No one said these movements had popular support. The accusation was that these extremists made use of the Maidan riots to put themselves into power.
 

Broccoli

Senior Member
No one said these movements had popular support. The accusation was that these extremists made use of the Maidan riots to put themselves into power.

Except that Russian media has been saying in past months that Kiev is ruled by nazis. Are we supposed to forget these blatant lies?


In other news Ukraine is giving a good kicking to pro-Russian terrorists.
At least 30 pro-Russia separatists were killed, the insurgents say, after an attempt to take over the airport early on Monday.

New President Petro Poroshenko had vowed to tackle "terrorists" in the east "within hours, not months".

Meanwhile, the OSCE says it has lost contact with a monitoring team.

The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe said four of its monitors were on a routine mission east of Donetsk. Contact was lost at 18:00 (16:00 GMT) on Monday and has not been re-established.

A spokesman told the BBC the monitors were Turkish, Swiss, Estonian and Danish, and all were male.

Seven international military observers linked to the OSCE were taken captive in eastern Ukraine in April and held for a week before being released.
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