2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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Miragedriver

Brigadier
Ghpyw71.jpg

Pro-Russian gunmen atop armored personal carriers passing by barricades on a road leading into Slovyansk, eastern Ukraine, Monday, May 5, 2014. Ukrainian authorities are undertaking a security operation to liberate the nearby city of Slovyansk, which is currently controlled by an armed pro-Russian insurgency. (AP Photo/Darko Vojinovic)


4YZ2mZA.jpg

Ukrainian Army soldiers are seen atop a BTR armoured vehicle while Pro Russia civilians block the road in the village of Andreevka, 10 km south of Slavyansk , Ukraine, Friday, May 2, 2014. Russia has massed tens of thousands of troops in areas near Ukraine's border. Kiev officials claim Russia is preparing to invade and that it is fomenting the unrest in the east, where insurgents have seized government buildings in about a dozen cities in towns. Moscow denies the allegations, but Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has warned Russia would respond to attacks on Russian citizens or interests in the east. (AP Photo/Manu Brabo)
 

delft

Brigadier
A senior editor of my center-right Dutch newspaper, formerly for many years correspondent for the paper in Moscow, writes in today's paper from Donetsk that the offensive of the Kiev regime in the East has failed and that the regime is in crisis not due to the military developments but due to the administrative vacuum in the country.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Well, I think that was obvious when the Kiev government had to bus in football hooligans to enforce their will.

The chaos and slaughter unleashed by those thugs in Odessa must have given many even in the Kiev government pause.

Unleashing sectarian hatred and racial violence won't save Ukraine, quite the contrary, it is the most sure fire way to ensure its destruction and disintegration.

Ukraine is falling apart because its own people are divided. And Odessa has only accelerated that by further polarising the people.

Even a strong, unified people can be vulnerable to foreign manipulation. With a divided populous and two superpowers, one global and one regional, playing tug of war with Ukraine, is it any wonder the nation is fracturing?

I think the key question now is not whether Odessa and the other Eastern provinces will break away, but rather how many would follow and how far Putin wants to go.
 
There is an article on the BBC website which is actually quite informative (sorry nearly chocked as I wrote that) regarding the events on Friday in Odessa. It does confirm some of the points that I raised and frustratingly passes swiftly over other areas without much detail.
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It does confirm the make up of the Pro-Unity marchers and it does confirm that the march left the Cathedral Sq and headed quite deliberately for the tented camp by the Trades Union House. It also gives us the names of specific streets that the marchers came down and it would be useful to ask your friend if these road names have any sectarian or otherwise communal significance in the City. I have tried to find the info online, but have not found anything remotely useful.

Reading the article, the parallels with the early days in the 60's, of the troubles in Ulster are quite apparent. I also read that Odessa has been a calm and cosmopolitan city until the crisis, so it is possible that few previously have worried about ethnic identity and so obvious lines of communal demarcation do not exist. I suspect this is likely to change and is one of the first casualties of sectarian conflict.

I am going to add a couple of video's from the Marching Season in Northern Ireland last year. I just want you all to see, exactly what sectarianism looks like. Remember also that this in a strong state, with a very well equipped police force, which has the benefits of the experience of thirty years of "troubles" and now nearly twenty years of peace process.

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Thank you, SampanViking, both videos are action-packed (the second one is unnecessary long, though, shows the fallen Policeman six times, I think), I liked most the moments in the 2nd video after 6:10 -- a gentleman equipped with a golf-club who approached the Riot Police got what he deserved, I guess

As for the dude whom I know well and who's been to Odessa: we sat at the same table in the pub this afternoon, but I didn't dare to ask anything Ukraine-related ... he seems to be shaken by what's been going on, and besides it seemed he became suspicious about pro-Russian accounts (he was born and permanently living in former Czechoslovakia, but at the same time he was a citizen of the Soviet Union until he was luckily able to get rid of it :) around 1989, which was complicated anyway (for example, the certificate which finally arrived was personally signed by Gorbachev LOL) -- my point is his "basic instinct" is to be pro-Russian if you know what I'm saying, but he's cool, knows stuff -- he's the Astronautics Expert in the pub, in the way as I'm Naval expert LOL)
 

delft

Brigadier
Well, I think that was obvious when the Kiev government had to bus in football hooligans to enforce their will.

The chaos and slaughter unleashed by those thugs in Odessa must have given many even in the Kiev government pause.

Unleashing sectarian hatred and racial violence won't save Ukraine, quite the contrary, it is the most sure fire way to ensure its destruction and disintegration.

Ukraine is falling apart because its own people are divided. And Odessa has only accelerated that by further polarising the people.

Even a strong, unified people can be vulnerable to foreign manipulation. With a divided populous and two superpowers, one global and one regional, playing tug of war with Ukraine, is it any wonder the nation is fracturing?

I think the key question now is not whether Odessa and the other Eastern provinces will break away, but rather how many would follow and how far Putin wants to go.
You're right of course. The real news is that my paper is writing it too.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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Well, I think that was obvious when the Kiev government had to bus in football hooligans to enforce their will.

The chaos and slaughter unleashed by those thugs in Odessa must have given many even in the Kiev government pause.

Unleashing sectarian hatred and racial violence won't save Ukraine, quite the contrary, it is the most sure fire way to ensure its destruction and disintegration.

Ukraine is falling apart because its own people are divided. And Odessa has only accelerated that by further polarising the people.

Even a strong, unified people can be vulnerable to foreign manipulation. With a divided populous and two superpowers, one global and one regional, playing tug of war with Ukraine, is it any wonder the nation is fracturing?

I think the key question now is not whether Odessa and the other Eastern provinces will break away, but rather how many would follow and how far Putin wants to go.

The biggest problem are the obstacles and inherent contradictions in agreeing a solution.
I think if we look at the situation with the major internal and external players, you will see why.

1) The EU
Despite noises off, there will be no intervention from the EU beyond sanctions against Russia. There is no definitive European voice and most hawkish noises are coming from the EU commission, who are unelected and have no real power to do anything. The disconnect between the Commission, the National Members States Governments and the general populace has never been greater. Many in Western Europe are very concerned by nature of EU involvement to date and seem likely to punish the political classes to an unprecedented degree in the EU parliamentary elections on May 25th.

2) The USA
Has made it clear that they have no intention of getting directly involved in military conflict in Ukraine and without the US, no European army will set foot either. Like the EU, US reaction will be confined to sanctions.
I have little doubt that most noises from Washington and really intended for domestic consumption and while the entry and integration of the Ukraine into NATO would be desirable, they know (that without military force backing) its a pipe dream and that the main concern of the US is actually the vacant White House in 2016, where it seems likely that being the keenest to bash Russia will be a major theme of forthcoming nomination and election races.

3) Russian Federation
When they say they do not want to invade, I believe them. They are determined not to see the Ukraine embedded into the EU and NATO and given that they care more about it and are prepared to de more about it, than the other powers are most likely to get their way. At the same time they also really do not want to have to pick up the bill after an intervention.
That being said, I believe Putin is serious about R2P if things get too wildly out of hand. If however his land forces do in the last instance, have to roll over the border, he will go all the way and not stop until he reaches the EU borders.
This is however the extreme reaction and I have no doubt that Putin will only do the minimum he has to do to achieve his ends and do virtually nothing for as long as he able to do so. If he does have to act, there are plenty of other steps to take first. The obvious first step; straight out of the NATO play book, would be to declare a No Fly Zone and Safe Havens in the East and use airpower to destroy Ukrainian forces on the ground.
Putins preference though will be simply to encourage the implosion of the Kiev regime and its replacement with a Government more to his liking.

4) The Maidan appointed Government in Kiev
This is an administration in crisis at every level. The sensible option would be to do a deal with Putin and agree the more open federal structure. The trouble is they cannot and the reason they cannot, is because after rejecting the Russian funding deal offered in November, they only have the IMF and the IMF money is only available based on the disposal of valuable Industrial Assets in the Donbass and these would become rapidly unavailable under a more Federal system as this is precisely what the the Pro-Federalists that live there are looking to avoid. This means that they either have to fold or push militarily to the very end.
It does look as though they are unwilling to do the former and incapable of achieving the latter.

5) The Pro Federalists
At this point these guys simply need to survive and weaken the perception of legitimacy and competence of the Kiev government. Things seem to be going there way. Events in Odessa will have horrified the majority of ordinary Ukrainians across the country, the apparent poor progress of the military operation in Slavyansk, plus ever weakening central control on many regions plays to their benefit.
Further of course as the terms on the IMF loans and the austerity that they bring become more widely known, the attraction of the Federalist cause, the much cheaper money from Russia and reinstated Gas Price Discounts could be enough to turn the tide against the Maidan regime once and for all.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Ghpyw71.jpg

Pro-Russian gunmen atop armored personal carriers passing by barricades on a road leading into Slovyansk, eastern Ukraine, Monday, May 5, 2014. Ukrainian authorities are undertaking a security operation to liberate the nearby city of Slovyansk, which is currently controlled by an armed pro-Russian insurgency. (AP Photo/Darko Vojinovic)


4YZ2mZA.jpg

Ukrainian Army soldiers are seen atop a BTR armoured vehicle while Pro Russia civilians block the road in the village of Andreevka, 10 km south of Slavyansk , Ukraine, Friday, May 2, 2014. Russia has massed tens of thousands of troops in areas near Ukraine's border. Kiev officials claim Russia is preparing to invade and that it is fomenting the unrest in the east, where insurgents have seized government buildings in about a dozen cities in towns. Moscow denies the allegations, but Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has warned Russia would respond to attacks on Russian citizens or interests in the east. (AP Photo/Manu Brabo)

Ok, if the fight is close and bloody and at night time how is the two side going to tell each other apart? They both basically speak the same language and wore the same color clothing (dark, green, camouflage,and mix of all) and fire the same kind of weapons and ammunition. It's an open case for friendly fire and great misinterpretations as "enemy" fire by journalists and soldiers alike.
 
...

Some things are available straight away, thanks mainly to modern social media and of course the plethora of news channels.

...

So we may not know who said what to who and why certain things happened etc, but I am confident that the above is the general gist of the events based by what is already in the public domain. Once again, I would welcome any further information; supporting or detracting, if anyone has it.

SampanViking, I think you would love Russian/Ukrainian Internet ... as to what's happened in Odessa, dozens of often contradicting accounts (sort of similar to yours) appeared, and it seems gazeta.ru in the article "The Odessa Tragedy: Questions and Versions" went through "some recurrent" theories which appeared so far; the article seeks answers to four questions:
1. Who Started This?
2. Why Police Did Not Interfere?
3. What Happened in Trade Union House?
4. Who Benefits?

The source:
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I could translate this, of course, but ... [self-censorship]
 
Ok, if the fight is close and bloody and at night time how is the two side going to tell each other apart? They both basically speak the same language and wore the same color clothing (dark, green, camouflage,and mix of all) and fire the same kind of weapons and ammunition. It's an open case for friendly fire and great misinterpretations as "enemy" fire by journalists and soldiers alike.

Some of the added complications when a conflict is a civil war.

Does anyone know what version of the BMD are the vehicles in the top picture? BMD-2?
 
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