2009 Update to Jeff Head's PLAN pages

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
So in a nutshell crobato the PLAN should develp a single VLS liken to the USN Mk 41 VLS. I agree. That way they have some continuity in ship design. This will make maintenance and training so much easier.

If I'm correct on this one, a revision on the "vision" of a future destroyer for PLAN can cause more delays as they revamp their plans for the future warship. It is possible that plans already on place for the next 052C or D may have been canceled or revised.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I mentioned before that the PLAN has to decide on a standardized VLS layout and medium-large SAM. They can't go around having two fairly large SAM systems---HQ-16 on the 054A and HQ-9 on the 052C---each with a different VLS system.

Without standardizing on the VLS system, you can't have a modular approach on the armaments. What if you want to have a cruise missile or ASROC on the VLS? If you built it on the HQ-16's VLS for example, it's not going to work on the HQ-9's VLS. Imagine let's say, the PLAN developed an ASROC, basically a Yu-7 light torpedo with a rocket booster on it and used it on the VLS of the 054A. Obviously it won't work on the 052C.

If the PLAN develops new 052x using the HQ-9 arrangement, they're only throwing good money on a dead end. The only thing the ships will be good at is air defense. You won't have the versatility in the VLS arrangement. We leave the 051C from the argument here because they're obviously dead ends.

The best thing for the 052x is to have more radical changes in order to have some standardization with the 054A which is the type likely to outnumber more than any other modern type in the PLAN. Revert to using HQ-16 for example, with its VLS launchers. Put one in the front and in the back, for a total of 64 missiles. In order to preserve the radar layout from the 052C, the seekers have to be active guided. In the future, the future 054x also have to make some adjustments in the radar layouts in order to be more compatible with the 052x. If they want to retain HQ-9, the 052x must move to a VLS layout similar to the 054x so they can share other missiles.
Agree 100% and I believe as the PLAN has tested their basic vessel design, they of course are also testing their VLS and other weapons fit.

If the 054As continue to be built, it may not only signal that they have settled for that FFG design, but also that they are perhaps settling for the HQ-16 and the VLS system.

One thing is for sure, by standardizing on a VLS, particularly one they can grow to include vertical launched ASuMs and perhaps ASW missiles, they would be saving themselves a lot of duplicate energy and money in building, outfitting, logistics, and training.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
If I'm correct on this one, a revision on the "vision" of a future destroyer for PLAN can cause more delays as they revamp their plans for the future warship. It is possible that plans already on place for the next 052C or D may have been canceled or revised.

I agree. You can't keep refining your design and keep building different "models" to shake them down. The PLAN needs to settle on one final design for continuity of maintenance and training...and above all war fighting ablity.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I agree. You can't keep refining your design and keep building different "models" to shake them down.
Did you see the newest pics out of Dalian and the Varyag>

Here's one. Seems like a lot more activity going on on deck as opposed to the pics from late last year...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


I have several of these posted on the Latest Varyag Info thread.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
We've yet to see any photos or evidence of a "common VLS" system being tested. At this time it'd be hard to believe that such a brand new VLS system would be installed to any destroyer currently in construction.

I'm interested to see if the RAM look alike product makes it to production and actually get installed on PLAN ships. So far we've only seen mock-ups last year.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
We've yet to see any photos or evidence of a "common VLS" system being tested. At this time it'd be hard to believe that such a brand new VLS system would be installed to any destroyer currently in construction.

I'm interested to see if the RAM look alike product makes it to production and actually get installed on PLAN ships. So far we've only seen mock-ups last year.
I agree about the VLS. The point is just that it is something that the PLAN rerally needs to do.

As to the RAM look alike. If it goes beyond looking like it and can actually act like it, such a weapons system would be an amazing addition...to any fleet.

The RAM missile system has proven most effective at downing incoming missiles, particularly sea skimmers. That's why most every new and evey US capitol ship is getting one or two of the launchers to compliment Phalynx and ESSM.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
We've yet to see any photos or evidence of a "common VLS" system being tested. At this time it'd be hard to believe that such a brand new VLS system would be installed to any destroyer currently in construction.

I'm interested to see if the RAM look alike product makes it to production and actually get installed on PLAN ships. So far we've only seen mock-ups last year.

It does not necessarily have to be brand new, the VLS design can be learned from existing designs. Mainly the one on the 054A holds the most promise.

It would be neat to get the diameter of dimensions of both the HQ-9 and HQ-16. If they are similar, it would not be as hard to rework the 054A VLS to fit the HQ-9, mainly by lengthening the tubes and adjusting the channels and ducts to deal with the increased exhaust flow. The HQ-9 itself has to be modified to hot launching.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
It does not necessarily have to be brand new, the VLS design can be learned from existing designs. Mainly the one on the 054A holds the most promise.

It would be neat to get the diameter of dimensions of both the HQ-9 and HQ-16. If they are similar, it would not be as hard to rework the 054A VLS to fit the HQ-9, mainly by lengthening the tubes and adjusting the channels and ducts to deal with the increased exhaust flow. The HQ-9 itself has to be modified to hot launching.
If they had to lengthen the tubes very much on the 054A, that would be a problem. But we should be able to figure out those diameters based on the known size of the beam of the vessels themselves. Interesting calculations.
 
Last edited:

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
They don't have to lengthen the ones on the 054A. Just on our hypothetical 052x. As long as the tubes have the same diameter, you can achieve some cross platform compatibility among armaments.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
They don't have to lengthen the ones on the 054A. Just on our hypothetical 052x. As long as the tubes have the same diameter, you can achieve some cross platform compatibility among armaments.
If the longer missile were also the larger diameter...then is is also possible to engineer sleaves for the larger tubes to accomodate the smaller missiles...if they are small enough, you can even develop "packs" to house them, like the quad pack ESSMs on Mk-41s or the SLCM Tomohawks on the SSGN Ohios.
 
Top