09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Blitzo]

Not only that anyway USSR/Russia have always been less concerned about their personnal, by ex for security reason an aircraft in Western don' t flight and in Russia can, it would not be surprising that it is the same for China.

Possibly true, but I think the fact that there was radiation issues with 091s early in their life was more due to limitations of technology and science of the time and the overall state of the nation in that regard.

Sorry but i don' t agree for Wikipedia which provide easily and in general good infos, more accurate in the language from the country and i am difficult...

I have no idea what you're saying. The previous part of your post was difficult to understand as well to be honest.
If you're trying to say that wikipedia provides good generaly information, that is only sometimes true and it depends on the specific subject. In this case, the wikipedia article on 091, I think is relatively accurate but outdated by almost a decade at the minimum.

 

[FORBIN]

OK...

In this case, the wikipedia article on 091, I think is relatively accurate but outdated by almost a decade at the minimum.

Sorry but if I was a little incorrect, as some guys but very few here almost all Gentlemens i say to you you joke coz :

When we see these last days the first pic of one Shang in service since 8/9 years !!!
and we don' t know exact number for Yuan, Song built from long time, always a little doubt for 022 and i can provide many many others things...

So It is not surprising that everyone is late !

 

[Blitzo]

OK...



Sorry but if I was a little incorrect, as some guys but very few here almost all Gentlemens i say to you you joke coz :

When we see these last days the first pic of one Shang in service since 8/9 years !!!
and we don' t know exact number for Yuan, Song built from long time, always a little doubt for 022 and i can provide many many others things...

So It is not surprising that everyone is late !

I don't really know what you mean, so I'm just going to assume that you agree with my previous point from what little I can infer from your writing.

 

[tidalwave]

why the new 093B hump which supposedly hosting VLS missiles is short. Its length is about the same as its Sail tower. How many missiles can be hosted there?

 

[FORBIN]

12 to 24 missiles, but as you say " hump which supposedly hosting VLS missiles is short " would logically 12 YJ-18 and/or CJ-10 navalised and i have see this number.

In more 12 is the number in a Los Angeles 688i which do about same size.

Named also Shang II.

 

[tidalwave]

According to Jack Midley of Deloitte defense Consulting, China planning 30 new Nuke Attack Submarines.

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[plawolf]

According to Jack Midley of Deloitte defense Consulting, China planning 30 new Nuke Attack Submarines.

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He said "30 attack submarines", nothing about them being nuclear and/or conventional.

30 new SSNs would be quite a directional change for the PLAN, and a strong indication that PLAN SSN/SSBN tech has finally firmly caught up with world standards for the PLAN to make such a huge investment on them.

Depending on the mix of SSNs to SSKs in the 30 sub total, it could range from a continuation of historical trends to the above scenario, but we can't really draw any firm conclusions until we know the nature of that mix.

But generally Midley made some very good and reasonable points, which is refreshing to hear with regards to analysis on China.

 

[tidalwave]

I thought the Indian first generation Arihant looks pretty good. It doesn't have a hump and tiny holes on the sides which has more smoother lines than than China 2-nd generation 094.

India got alot of help from Russia in its design and learned alot from usage of Akula

I think China needs to improve the 094 design and it can't have those outdated hump anymore.
Maybe China can buy a few Akula subs or even Yasen. I think it can help.

 

[SinoSoldier]

I thought the Indian first generation Arihant looks pretty good. It doesn't have a hump and tiny holes on the sides which has more smoother lines than than China 2-nd generation 094.

India got alot of help from Russia in its design and learned alot from usage of Akula

I think China needs to improve the 094 design and it can't have those outdated hump anymore.
Maybe China can buy a few Akula subs or even Yasen. I think it can help.

You need to take into account that (1) the Type 094 needs to carry three times the quantity of missiles as the Arihant, and (2) the K-4 SLBMs are significantly lighter & shorter than the JL-2.

 

[plawolf]

I thought the Indian first generation Arihant looks pretty good. It doesn't have a hump and tiny holes on the sides which has more smoother lines than than China 2-nd generation 094.

India got alot of help from Russia in its design and learned alot from usage of Akula

I think China needs to improve the 094 design and it can't have those outdated hump anymore.
Maybe China can buy a few Akula subs or even Yasen. I think it can help.

The Indian SSBN ( has it even got its nuclear reactor installed yet?) have far smaller missiles with only a range of a few hundred miles.

Bigger missiles need greater depth. Unless you want to vastly increase the size of the boat, your only choice is a hump. Why doesn't China make bigger SSBNS? Well I think that's mainly down to reactors. You need more power to drive a bigger boat to the same speed as a smaller one. If your reactors can only output X amount of energy, that limits your sub to Y tonnes if you want to still be able to achieve Z speed. Its all about compromises and choices.

China is already making world class SSKs, so it knows how to make quiet subs. I think the main reason its SSN programmes appear to be lagging so much in comparison is down to a lack of competition in that field, but mainly in reactor technology.

With the new generation of civilian pebble bed reactors close to coming online, I think China is closer than many would think to finally getting past those final hurdles towards producing world class SSNs and SSBNs in terms of noise level.

As outside observers, we are limited to what we can observe. We can only see the final results, and not the progress made in between.