09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[azesus]

If enemy subs were so hard to detect after the Akula, the entire SOSUS network would have been dismantled. It was not the advent of the Akula but rather the end of the Cold War that saw the shrinkage (but NOT elimination) of the worldwide SOSUS network. And it's also not like the sensors themselves are static in their technology. They have been upgraded irregularly over the years, and are now going to be upgraded to the newer DRAPES technology:

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China is building something similar, and Virginias, Seawolfs, and LA subs are all quieter than Akulas. So why would China build these arrays if these types of subs are allegedly invulnerable to detection?

That, BTW, was the only semi-reasonable argument you made in that post. The rest of your claims are "it's far more likely" this and "it's far more likely" that. Fat Leonard this, claims about LA class maintenance times that, and other smoke and mirrors that are just ridiculously irrelevant. So Fat Leonard made money off dozens of corrupt naval officers. THAT somehow means that SOSUS or SURTASS can't detect enemy subs??? Seriously? I mean how much more ridiculous can this get? LOL

According to Cold War Submarines by Norman Polmar who is a USA naval think tank intelligence analysis Soviet subs are superior, China are fielding SQUID in the south china sea, superconducting quantum underwater interference device which is a vastly superior technology thats totally on another whole new level rendering modern submarine obsolete

 

[Equation]

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According to Cold War Submarines by Norman Polmar who is a USA naval think tank intelligence analysis Soviet subs are superior, China are fielding SQUID in the south china sea, superconducting quantum underwater interference device which is a vastly superior technology thats totally on another whole new level rendering modern submarine obsolete

Hi Azesus welcome to SDF by the way. Just curious, do you have any available sources about China's SQUID system? Thanks.

 

[Iron Man]

View attachment 44100
According to Cold War Submarines by Norman Polmar who is a USA naval think tank intelligence analysis Soviet subs are superior, China are fielding SQUID in the south china sea, superconducting quantum underwater interference device which is a vastly superior technology thats totally on another whole new level rendering modern submarine obsolete

First, this represents the opinion of one analyst. Even if it were true the Russians may very well not have been able to keep up with advances since the fall of the Soviet Union. Their only new SSN class since the Akula has been the Yasen class, introduced 29 years after the Akulas first went into service. The lead ship Severodvinsk took 20 years from construction to commissioning. Second, you are way over-exaggerating the current state of maturity of SQUID. This tells me you just know that it exists and not much more beyond that. Its actual state of readiness to be deployed is non-existent. OTOH SQUID technology is definitely something to watch for in the future as a potentially disruptive ASW technology, IF its range can be increased to practical levels.

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[FORBIN]

First, this represents the opinion of one analyst. Even if it were true the Russians may very well not have been able to keep up with advances since the fall of the Soviet Union. Their only new SSN class since the Akula has been the Yasen class, introduced 29 years after the Akulas first went into service. The lead ship Severodvinsk took 20 years from construction to commissioning. Second, you are way over-exaggerating the current state of maturity of SQUID. This tells me you just know that it exists and not much more beyond that. Its actual state of readiness to be deployed is non-existent. OTOH SQUID technology is definitely something to watch for in the future as a potentially disruptive ASW technology, IF its range can be increased to practical levels.

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He's not neutral invents .. and yes not deployed and operational in addition detect to very short range " 6 km " coz very difficult technicaly.
A active hull sonar detect much more far severals dozens of km dépends the target, a Noisy dected to severals several hundred of kms sonar used by helos are less powerfuf ofc but mobile.

But SOSUS or ISUS sensors in more SURTASS ships i means exist again in Western Pacific ? USN and/or Japan have ?

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In addition for the detection sea temperature, salinity and depth changes the conditions many parameters !

BTW each side do progress sometimes with different system capabilities as the sword and the cuirass since always

After back to topic

 

[Klon]

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from Yalong Bay, which is next to Yulin Naval Base. Submarines and destroyers.

 

[azesus]

The physics of SQUID is kinda like MRI when you visit hospital, the problem its too sensitive so their will be too much noise data but then you can software compute it with tensor matrix algebra similar on AESA radar so the software between SQUID and AESA are similar. So how good china AESA is gives you tell clue how good their SQUID is, and China only has finite space choke point on south china sea so they can cross method first use passive sonar locate general location and then focus SQUID kinda like undersea EO IR looking at the undersea like a MRI scan nothing can hide. Individual sensor of SQUID is short ranged so how about solve that problem by build LOTS of them! problem solved. Why would china stop building SQUID at just one or two, use some common sense

 

[Iron Man]

The physics of SQUID is kinda like MRI when you visit hospital, the problem its too sensitive so their will be too much noise data but then you can software compute it with tensor matrix algebra similar on AESA radar so the software between SQUID and AESA are similar. So how good china AESA is gives you tell clue how good their SQUID is, and China only has finite space choke point on south china sea so they can cross method first use passive sonar locate general location and then focus SQUID kinda like undersea EO IR looking at the undersea like a MRI scan nothing can hide. Individual sensor of SQUID is short ranged so how about solve that problem by build LOTS of them! problem solved. Why would china stop building SQUID at just one or two, use some common sense

Let us be unambiguous about the fact that you made a false claim:

China are fielding SQUID in the south china sea

China is definitively NOT fielding SQUID in the SCS. SQUID is a nascent technology still in the development phase. It's detection range is clearly inadequate for any practical real world application. As for using "common sense", someone who suggests building "LOTS" of SQUID detectors with ranges of only 6km should reconsider his advice to others. As for how good China's AESA technology is, I don't know, and neither do you.

 

[azesus]

Ha just because you dont understand doesn't mean it doesn't exist, remember last time you said china dont have shaft-less pumpjet?

 

[azesus]

error

 

[Hendrik_2000]

China might not have Squid right now but they definitely built the under water great wall as we speak now
They have been researching it for years and completed the research this year proving that all the component of underwater great wall are working as expected I create a whole thread but fanboi never want to know the truth they just stuck their head in the sand like they say igonorant is bliss!
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-littoral-asw-capability.t6718/page-13
In the future there will be no place to hide for submarine it is loosing battle for the same reason that Aircraft carrier will be vulnerable economic
Drones versus subs is essentially an arms race, a contest between an expensive but fragile weapon pitted against hordes of cheap sensor and weapons platforms. It parallels the race between the development of stealth aircraft, and the development of sensors to detect them.

From National interest quoting British study. With the proliferation of new sensor like SQUID, LIDAR, underwater communication, gliders, automatic sonobuoy, cheap HALE UAV, hiding is becoming more difficult

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The U.S. Navy's Nuclear Submarines Could Be Made Obsolete

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September 25, 2017

On a more human level, it would be interesting to go back in time to World Wars I and II, where a constant refrain of the sailors and airmen who hunted subs was the sheer tedium of the search. Hour after hour after hour of scanning the oceans, in the hope that a needle in the haystack would reveal itself as a sonar contact or a tiny periscope peeking above the surface. If nothing else, farming out sub-hunting to the robots will make chasing subs a bit less dull.

Submarines can run—but they can't hide—from drones.

That's the contention of a new report by a British think tank, which argues that the growing numbers and sophistication of drones are depriving submarines of their stealthiness.

The

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, authored by science journalist David Hambling for the British American Security Information Council, was written as a briefing paper for Britain's Parliament, which must consider whether to modernize or scrap the UK's Trident nuclear missile subs.

The report points out the century-old method of hunting subs is changing:

"In the past, antisubmarine warfare (ASW) has been carried out by a small number of highly capable ships and manned aircraft. Their task has been like that of a handful of police looking for a fugitive in a vast wilderness. Lacking the manpower to cover the whole area, they have to concentrate their forces on the most likely paths and hideouts, and hope for a lucky break."

Now, highly expensive subs must contend with an expanding array of cheap robot sub-hunters that can blanket the ocean, sort of in the same way that German U-boat "

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" ganged up on Allied convoys in the North Atlantic. These include small handheld drones that the U.S. military is designing to operate in swarms, air-launched drones like the U.S.

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that can be dropped by ASW aircraft, and sonar-equipped underwater robot gliders that quietly search the ocean.

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"Small unmanned platforms can carry many types of sensors active and passive sonar, magnetic anomaly detectors, wake detection LIDAR, thermal sensors, laser-based optical sensors capable of piercing seawater and others," Hambling writes. "A submarine which can be seen by any one of these will cease to be invisible. A submarine whose location is exposed is highly vulnerable to instant attack. If submarines are easily detectable, they lose all their advantages as strategic weapons platforms."

Drones versus subs is essentially an arms race, a contest between an expensive but fragile weapon pitted against hordes of cheap sensor and weapons platforms. It parallels the race between the development of stealth aircraft, and the development of sensors to detect them.

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