054/A FFG Thread II

[Blitzo]

Taking into consideration the small box of laser emission detector at the base of the installation, this should be an EO countermeasures system.

Unlikely, because emission detector is present on past 054As (and also other PLAN ships) without that EO turret either, so there's no reason to suspect they are related in function.



For naval ships it also doesn't really make sense to have an EO countermeasures system against laser systems (whether it's a laser range finger or even a laser designator) for naval ships compared to say, a land based system.

... More importantly, having an augmented EO sensor suite makes more sense given the greater prevalence of low observable missile systems and the ability to have more plentiful and more capable EO systems to be cued to them is valuable.

 

[snake65]

Sense or not, for instance, Russian 22350 has both EO detectors and EO countermeasures. In the first picture there are other two EO ball sensors already.

 

[Blitzo]

Sense or not, for instance, Russian 22350 has both EO detectors and EO countermeasures.

I'm aware such systems exist for naval vessels, but they are not sufficiently commonplace that we should assume a new EO turret should be thought to be an EO countermeasure.

In the first picture there are other two EO ball sensors already.

A ship usually has multiple sets of EO turrets for overlapping coverage and and different roles and resolutions.

It's not impossible that those new faceted turrets on the top of last batch 054A's deckhouse are some sort of EO countermeasure, but the default assumption until proven otherwise should be that they are for EO sensors.

If you want to say that there is a possibility this could be for an EO countermeasure system, sure it's not non-viable. But "should be" is pushing it.

 

[snake65]

Oh, semantics again. Possibility vs. probability. Your subjective assessment vs. mine. Well, I consider your statement "doesn't really make sense to have an EO countermeasures system against laser systems for naval ships" as too strong also.

 

[sequ]

The electro-optical sensor layout has been changed so many times on the Type 054 that it is very hard to keep track of it. That thing has more than a dozen thermal imaging systems by now.

They should start upgrading the ship with a better radar and quadpacking capability. An AR is going to be a AShM fest whether or not Japan and US get involved.

 

[Blitzo]

Oh, semantics again. Possibility vs. probability. Your subjective assessment vs. mine. Well, I consider your statement "doesn't really make sense to have an EO countermeasures system against laser systems for naval ships" as too strong also.

Until EO countermeasures become more standard for naval ships, suggesting that our default expectation for the EO turret should be a countermeasures system, is a stretch.

Just use some less strong wording next time, be a bit less confident.

By the way, to be clear I actually think a laser dazzler or EO countermeasure kind of system would be rather useful for some emerging threats. Some newer AShMs use ImIR as part of terminal guidance, and being able to interfere with those would actually be a fairly neat capability.
.... but it doesn't mean the capability should be viewed as an expectation or a default when confronted with a generic looking new EO turret design.

 

[lcloo]

The first batch of type 054A has reach their mid-life, as they were commissioned between January 3rd to June 30th, 2008. These 4 ships are #529, #530, #568 and #570.

We will be seeing type 054As taking their turns for mid-life refit upgrades from now to 2038-2040. There are 40 type 054A in PLAN service, the last 2 ships (PLANS Dali 大理 #553 and Tongliao 通辽 #554) were commissioned in November 2023.

 

[Tam]

The electro-optical sensor layout has been changed so many times on the Type 054 that it is very hard to keep track of it. That thing has more than a dozen thermal imaging systems by now.

They should start upgrading the ship with a better radar and quadpacking capability. An AR is going to be a AShM fest whether or not Japan and US get involved.

054A has historically been used for experimentation leading to non standard variations among the ships. For example, the first two ships of the first batch of four ships added some sort of dipole arrays on the main mast. I think it's for long frequency ESM. The array arrived in final definitive form on the four ships of the second to the last batch, but has been moved from the main to the second mast.

Other experimentations led to varied and nonstandard SATCOM layouts. One ship, no. 515, was used to test the CEC arrays. Refer to what I mentioned about CEC panels on the Type 055, the carriers and now as the arrays hanging under the main radars of the 054B like a chin.

So no surprise the EO layouts are non standard. To some degree so are the 052C/D, and these ships also have variations in their ESM.

As for midlife upgrades, let's wait and see what the PLAN plans to do with the first four ships.

 

[Lethe]

Looking at some discrepancies between English and Chinese Wikipedia re: new 054As. English Wikipedia, citing the latest edition of Jane's Fighting Ships, lists a new 054A frigate, hull number 540 Xichang, launched from Huangpu in November 2021. No ship with this name, hull number or launch date is listed on Chinese Wikipedia. The closest launch dates for ships from Huangpu cited on Chinese Wikipedia are 522 Ziyang launched July 2021 and 537 Yixing launched December 2021, however both of these ships are also listed on the English Wikipedia entry with matching dates, again citing JFS. Contemporaneous posts from @iantsai suggest that an 054A was indeed launched from Huangpu in November 2021, bracketing the aforementioned two ships.

 

[emmemm]

Looking at some discrepancies between English and Chinese Wikipedia re: new 054As. English Wikipedia, citing the latest edition of Jane's Fighting Ships, lists a new 054A frigate, hull number 540 Xichang, launched from Huangpu in November 2021. No ship with this name, hull number or launch date is listed on Chinese Wikipedia. The closest launch dates for ships from Huangpu cited on Chinese Wikipedia are 522 Ziyang launched July 2021 and 537 Yixing launched December 2021, however both of these ships are also listed on the English Wikipedia entry with matching dates, again citing JFS. Contemporaneous posts from @iantsai suggest that an 054A was indeed launched from Huangpu in November 2021, bracketing the aforementioned two ships.

There is and never has been a 540 Xichang!