Hong-Kong Protests

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I think Josh Luo simply watches too much Western media.
That is unquestionably the root of all of his problems; he not only reads them, he doesn't question them and enters conversations making assertions built on false statements as underlying assumptions. I'm a genetics doctor but every time I talk to him, I feel like I'm doing his toxicology work-up trying to figure out what nonsense poisoned his mind for him to say something so wrong. And he seems to be on China's side, so the problem truly is education; if he were anti-China, it would be obvious that he just believes what makes him comfortable.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
[QUOTE="Josh Luo, post: 565973, member: 11597"

From HKers' perspective, they expected Beijing to be a liberal democracy by 2047. Otherwise, there would be no point being part of China.[/QUOTE]

Just where did you get the ideal that Hong kongers were expecting China to change by 2947, and no point otherwise!

That's a BIG assertion on you part. Where is the fact to back this up?

Yes, some Hong Kongers do see it that way, but the way you put it over on thid forum sounds as if this is what ALL Hong Kongers want! I can 100% say not ALL Hong Kongers see it that way!
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
If this forum is to have any relation to the real world, especially as a military forum, it cannot forbid talk of potential violence. If Americans did not resort to violence against fellow Americans, your country could still be split between the North and South today. Sometimes in life, violence is the only way to bring about peace and denial of that only divorces discussions from reality.

But as you can tell from my post that you quoted, I'm not entirely sure that violence (or a military answer) is the correct response yet as I'm still struggling to understand what Hong Kong is (even without consideration to the riots).

Yes, its funny how USA can have a bloody war to keep their country together, whereas if China use force to contain Hong Kong from being seperated (let's not forget independence is one of the five main demands demanded by the protestors).

It somehow is wrong and undemocratic, and liberty taking!

Gee, go figures.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
What is this "the world is watching" nonsense? Do you think that's going to deter China in the slightest? On the scale of threats, "the world is watching" is pretty feeble and pathetic. The world can watch China flip it the bird, what's the world going to do? What can it do if China crushes these protests?

Nothing at all.

I love that soundbite. "the world is watching". A bit like "wrong side of history"

All sound bite created for their own public consumption when there's nothing better on offer!
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


As usual, you need to read between the lines with western MSM co-ordinated misinformation campaigns.

The obvious take away is that the western social media used to stir up trouble in HK are proactively banning pro-Beijing speech on their platforms (like any state backed botnet would only have less than a hundred accounts :rolleyes: ).

However, notice how that while they blocked (ie could only find) a tiny number of ‘suspicious’ pro-China accounts (most likely private operations run by individuals in their spare time) but 200k other accounts initially automatically suspended by their witch hunt against Pro-Beijing accounts were subsequently re-activated.

This reminds me of the earlier story where in an effort to combat alleged Russian meddling in American politics, huge numbers of anti-China bot accounts were auto-banned by Twitter and Facebook algorithms because they behaved in extremely similar ways as the alleged Russian botnets, and had to be subsequently manually re-actives by Twitter and Facebook to allow them to continue their hate speech against China.

All this isn't censorship in action! But notice the MSM reporting this as a good thing! Gee
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Show evidence for why they are false then. My ears are wide open as I'm trying to formulate a solid picture for myself of what Hong Kong is. Every member here posts videos and evidence of violence and mob behavior in order to correctly define them as riots. It is you who chooses to side-step such discussions and go off on your own tangent posting propaganda articles that emotionalize things without evidence... When one looks at videos but still says no evidence was provided, I can only assume that this is a voluntary blindness.

Yes! What a cheek, accusing members here of writing falsehood! Yet, he just posted tons of propoganda materials, intended to mis-lead at best, and damn lies at worse.

THe hypocrisy is too much!
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
I myself have absolutely no problem with HKers wanting to have more freedom. I am ok with them protesting on the streets.

However, I do have a huge problem with some of them claiming not to be Chinese. Unlike Taiwan, where there had been some gray areas (especially concerning the aboriginals living on the island way before China took control of the island >400 years ago), Hong Kong has always been part of China. Even the British recognized this fact when they were the colonial power controlling HK. That’s why they had to return HK back to China when the lease was up, despite that fact that the British wanted to keep HK for themselves.

HK people had always identified themselves as Chinese. HK’s Chinese history drama in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s have been considered as classics and the golden standard of Chinese ancient history drama.

As the saying goes, they may hate the government, but they love the country. Similarly, HKers may hate the PRC, but they should never separate themselves from being Chinese.

An earlier article talks about an international student from HK feeling uncomfortable being referred to as being from “Hong Kong, China”. This, to me, would be unacceptable. The term “Hong Kong, China” is legally, politically, historically and socially correct in every sense of the word. HKers are Chinese in every sense of the definition. No matter how anyone spins it.

The HKer in the article considers themselves the same as Tibet and Taiwan. HK is very different in the sense that HK has always been offficially and legally part of China. Even the most staunched supporters of the Taiwan independence acknowledge that Taiwan and HK are very different. Most of the supporters of the Taiwan independence movement consider HK as a Chinese territory colonized by the British. They always proudly claim that “we have independence, but they (HKers) have never had independence.

Even one of the main leaders of the protest made a statement today that he is not seeking Hong Kong independence. That means he acknowledges that HK is part of China. Then HKers are Chinese. “Hong Kong, China” is an absolutely 100% correct description.

I agree with most of your text. But I'll take issues with a couple of things.

1st and easy one to inform you with is that:

Independence IS one of the 5 demands demanded by the protestors.

2nd, it is false (mostly western MSM narratives) to assume ALL Hong Kongers and Taiwanise wanting idenpendence!

Hong Kong 1st, with the exception of a very tiny minority, Hong Kongers that now seek independence because their hatred towards the CCP.

If, China, say all of sudden become democratic, or change to nationalist. Majority of those calling for independence will quickly drop their demand, and would happly call themselves chinese again.

With regards to Taiwan, come on, officialy, Taiwan is the republic of China! (ROC). And as such still claim Mainland China, HONG KONG, southsea islands and the daiyous!

The reasons some in Taiwan is callung for "independence " is because the see the prospect of ever ruling ALL of China as remote.

If PRC callapses tomorrow, and Taiwan are invited back to govern all of China again, I bet you my last dollar, all calls for independence will disappear!

Because Taiwan still claims Hong Kong as part of its territory, that's probably why that Joshua Wong got a rough reception in Taiwan where he flee to the other day.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
While there is no need to understand hardcore anti-Chinese but to stamp them out, there is very much the need to understand Hong Kong as a whole. Is it made of many of these people? Or is the majority opinion that they wish to be Chinese, but with some grievances, or are they confused what they are because of Hong Kong's odd history? Or perhaps the silent majority is proud to be Chinese Right now, I'm hearing everything from everyone and I just don't know. It is very important to understand Hong Kong as a whole and what the prevailing attitude is in order to calibrate the correct response. You certainly don't want to assume based on toxic Western misinformation that Hong Kong is all anti-China self-hating thugs with no hope left and end up killing (or radicalizing) people who wanted to be Chinese but were briefly led astray by radicals/foreign agents. This is the type of severe miscalculation that would best serve the anti-Chinese forces.

Speaking from personal experience with my family and friends both here where I live and in Hong Kong.

Bear in mind no one has ever done survey on this. But here goes. From my experience, in my own circle, by far the majority is against these protestors!

I would say in Hong Kong, the yellow camp as its known for the protestors is still minority. Mainly comes from young students, intellectuals and professionals.

The majority are silent because they are AFRAID! My aunty whos elderly for example talks to me on whatsup, and she said she is afraid to speak badly against demostrators, because some of her friends are in the yellow camp. And as such, whenever she and others like her raise the subject of current situation, they get shouted down. And she hears other get worse treatments.

So there is a climate of fear. So much for democracy and freedom the yellow camp keeps harping on about.

Now before anyone jumps down my throat, and calling me out for writing propoganda. Etc.

All I can say is what I 'm writing is the truth that was made known to me. I certainly have no issues with what my aunty said.(she is like a mother to me). It may or may not be representative of the situation. But its one person's experience none the less.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Perhaps you feel that you have a more personal stake in this, as you mentioned that your girlfriend is in and from Hong Kong. I can only say that if you see a future where you will have plenty of interaction with HK, you will have to accept the fact that there are significant anti-PRC sentiments, and even some anti-China sentiments. I don't think that comes as a surprise, considering how they've been calling Mainland visitors "locusts" for years now.

Nevertheless, for every Joshua Wong, there is a Jackie Chan:

Solarz, I'm born in Hong Kong of indigenous descend of 12 generations (basically all through British colonial rule).

I still have my ID card, and my Chinese oversea national passport.

I can safely say in my experience, not everyone is anti-China or anti-PRC. Those who are are mainly anti-CCP.

With the locusts remark, those mainly comes from anti-CCP elements, and I can only apologies on Hong Kong behalf!

And to those who charged ALL Hong Kongers of pro-colonial mentality. Please be assured that is only those from the anti-CCP camp.

We indigenous people have fought alone against the British all the way. Indeed so much so, the British took away the main iron gates of one of our villagers after a seige for rebellon against British rule. (You can search on line)!

Indeed, as I'm a male, I've inherited the rights to build on lands (because all lands belong to the crown). After we had fought for that right!
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
I have no personal interest other than my love for my country. I can bring my girlfriend anywhere I go, or I can get a new girlfriend, but my country is forever.

But I'd like to know what the actual ratio is. At least an accurate ballpark. Pretty hard question, I know. But that's needed to calibrate a correct response. If it's 80% Jackie Chan and 20% terrorist kid then it's worth it to work to heal the wound. But if it's 80% terrorists willing to help the CIA subvert their own country, I think the best way forward is to amputate and regrow. It's just not worth the time and trouble trying to save a population like that and I don't mean to sound inhumane at all. Another time, another scene, we can spend all the resources we have to help re-educate these confused Chinese brethren but right now is a critical time when China is preparing for a dethroning and we just can't have anything jeopardizing that.

Very ball-park figure, my take on this from my own experience. its more like 1/3 anti-CCP China, 1/3 pro-China (PRC or ROC), 1/3 pro status quo.
 
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