JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[adeptitus]

If not for political reasons, I'd think JF-17 would also be a good upgrade/replacement candidate for users of F-16A/B and F-5s.

I think the F-16's will actually turn out to be a competitor to the JF-17 market. In the coming years, with F-35's rolling out of assembly lines, there will be a surplus of used F-16's entering the resale market. The prices for used F-16's will be very competitive. In case of Singapore, they "donated" (free!) their used F-16A/B to Thailand in exchange for using their bases for training.

See the title of this article "Saab offers Gripens at used F-16 price":

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I think the title itself says it all.

 

[taimikhan]

I don't know much about the JF-17..but I do know this..

All members are here by advised not to hot link your photos when posting photos. Use a photo hosting site such as imageshack or tinypic. They are very easy to use.

Download the photo you wish to post to your computer. Use a photo hosting site to upload it. Use that URL to host your photo.

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Thanks to one of our Chinese friends Wangrong posting these pictures at another Pakistani forum:

JF-17's avionics

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[Pointblank]

I think the F-16's will actually turn out to be a competitor to the JF-17 market. In the coming years, with F-35's rolling out of assembly lines, there will be a surplus of used F-16's entering the resale market. The prices for used F-16's will be very competitive. In case of Singapore, they "donated" (free!) their used F-16A/B to Thailand in exchange for using their bases for training.

See the title of this article "Saab offers Gripens at used F-16 price":

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I think the title itself says it all.

And with thousands of F-16's built, the JF-17 will never significant export success beyond a handful of customers and countries without access to Western or Russian military gear. Most nations that are current F-5, early F-16, or MiG-21/J-7 users are either purchasing aircraft with significantly enhanced capabilities (later block F-16's, Gripen's, MiG-29's, etc) or for the low end, going with enhanced trainers.

 

[Saeed Khan]

... the JF-17 will never significant export success beyond a handful of customers and countries without access to Western or Russian military gear ...

That's what they said about K-8 Karakorum too but I believe more than 500 have been built/sold so far! Not bad for a nation that has barely started designing/exporting its trainers/fighters.

 

[Pointblank]

That's what they said about K-8 Karakorum too but I believe more than 500 have been built/sold so far! Not bad for a nation that has barely started designing/exporting its trainers/fighters.

The problem is that the market for fighters will soon be flooded with used aircraft in good shape at very attractive prices. 4000+ F-16's coming onto market at rock bottom prices in a short period of time will make a huge dent in the world fighter market.

 

[Lion]

The problem is that the market for fighters will soon be flooded with used aircraft in good shape at very attractive prices. 4000+ F-16's coming onto market at rock bottom prices in a short period of time will make a huge dent in the world fighter market.

Provided the countries are friendly to USA.

 

[EDIATH]

Provided the countries are friendly to USA.

Perhaps even more importantly, those F-16s must be in genuinely "good shape".

USAF is planning to extend the service life of F-15 fleet too, and they went as far as taking a few samples apart to re-assess their servicibility. The risk of buying a second hand modern fighter jet is far greater than buying a used car, due to the jet's extreme service conditions as well as the complexity of its mechanism. A plane cash may result from the slightest fatigue of material or parts malfunction. Take the recent PLAAF J7 crash for example, it was caused by the aged lubricating system within the engine fuel-supply part, not so easy to find out during routine maintenance I suppose.

Therefore unless the buyer can make sure the F-16s offered would still fly true after 20+ years of wear & tear, which is no easy task for the bulk of potential buyers, they must measure the risk of pilots' lives against the apparent discount. Furthermore, how many years of service life are left for these second-hand jets should be considered in conjunction with their price tag. I wouldn't go for the risky second-handed if the alternative is brand new, reliable and with far greater potential for upgrades albeit twice as expensive.

 

[Londo Molari]

The problem is that the market for fighters will soon be flooded with used aircraft in good shape at very attractive prices. 4000+ F-16's coming onto market at rock bottom prices in a short period of time will make a huge dent in the world fighter market.

in a short period of time? I'll assume you mean 10 years (nobody outside of US is getting F-35's before then). So that's 2020. So JF-17 will have no serious competition until then.

In 2020 those F-16's will be 30 years old with thousands of hours of fatigue on the airframes. They will be falling apart and will have to be retired. A big reason why many countries signed up for JSF as observers was not to get the high-tech stuff, but simply because their existing fleet will be too old to fly in 2020.

There might be SOME F-16's around which are not falling apart (manufactured after the 80's). Will they be able to compete with JF-17? In 10 years, JF-17 could be a much more mature and capable aircraft.

 

[Pointblank]

in a short period of time? I'll assume you mean 10 years (nobody outside of US is getting F-35's before then). So that's 2020. So JF-17 will have no serious competition until then.

In 2020 those F-16's will be 30 years old with thousands of hours of fatigue on the airframes. They will be falling apart and will have to be retired. A big reason why many countries signed up for JSF as observers was not to get the high-tech stuff, but simply because their existing fleet will be too old to fly in 2020.

There might be SOME F-16's around which are not falling apart (manufactured after the 80's). Will they be able to compete with JF-17? In 10 years, JF-17 could be a much more mature and capable aircraft.

The F-16 has already exceeded the estimated service life when it was originally designed. There are many programs out there that are able to structurally rebuild F-16's to a nearly new state, coupled with many avionics upgrades from a variety of manufacturers.

Note that the sale and disposal of F-16's have already begun. Romania has been offered a deal for 24 F-16 Block 25's from USAF stocks for a heavily discounted price ($1.3 billion), which has spawned counter offers for the Eurofighter (24 from Italian Air Force stocks, with support and spares plus 100% industrial offset, for $1.3 billion) and the Saab Gripen (24 brand new, with support and spares, plus 100% industrial offset, for $1.3 billion). In short, the JF-17 is entering a very competitive market which is currently being saturated by new and used F-16's, Eurofighters, MiG-29's, used Mirage 2000's, and Saab Gripens. I think beyond a handful of customers for political reasons, most nations will look at the competition over the JF-17.

 

[dingyibvs]

That's pretty irrelevant, most countries will either buy western products or Chinese/Russian products, regardless of what price and how good they are. Romania isn't gonna buy the JF-17 no matter what.