Chinese semiconductor industry

[olalavn]

Bro delayed due to covid?

China’s Nata Opto-Electronic Gains as Photoresist Product Passes Tests, Challenges Import Monopoly
TANG SHIHUA
DATE: DEC 18 2020
/ SOURCE: YICAI

China’s Nata Opto-Electronic Gains as Photoresist Product Passes Tests, Challenges Import Monopoly
(Yicai Global) Dec. 18 -- Jiangsu Nata Opto-Electronic Material’s shares surged as much as 14 percent this morning on the news that the high-purity electronic material maker’s self-developed photoresist, which is a key raw material used to manufacture high-end chips, has passed customer assessments, paving the way to end the monopoly held by foreign players.
Suzhou, Jiangsu province-based Nata Opto-Electronic’s shares [SHE:300346] were trading up 11.35 percent at CNY36.99 (USD5.65) at 2 p.m. China time. They earlier had reached CNY38.01.
Its ArF photoresist, which is a light-sensitive material used to form a patterned coating on a surface, is the first domestic photoresist product to obtain such a certification, the company said yesterday. Until now, China has relied entirely on imports of the material.
Clients, who were not named, tested the material on 50-nanometer flash memory process technology. The product met the necessary specifications and the yield reached the required standards, it added.
ArF photoresist plays a protective role against corrosion during the lithography of integrated circuits and it needs to be of high quality. The material can be applied in 90-nm, 14-nm and even 7-nm technology nodes. It can be used to make a wide range of semiconductors, including logic chips, artificial intelligence chips, fifth-generation wireless network chips, large-capacity memory chips and cloud computing chips, the firm said.
Nata Opto-Electronic has invested CNY656 million (USD100.2 million) in the research and development of its own photoresist products. It is aiming to produce 25 tons of ArF photoresist by the end of next year from its plant in Ningbo.
Editor: Kim Taylor

they are working on 5nm Photoresist... but I don't know which lithographer it's for
28-7nm has been confirmed since December

 

[Zichan]

In times like these, we can only rely on fact.

The facts here, are public statements. So the facts we can surmise are thus:

• There was some sort of meeting between USA, Netherlands, Japan, where something was agreed.
  
  
• The Dutch PM stated that due to the sensitivity of the topic, no further comments will be made, therefore, do not ask any questions, because this is a secret.
  
  
• AMSL has said do not expect anything for them to change in the coming year.
  
  
• Japanese companies have no clue of what anyone is talking about.

From the first two statements, it would appear that a secret agreement has been reach.

From the reactions of the companies that could be materially affected, this ban itself is still a secret.

So, I would think, the obvious conclusion, is that this is a secret agreement, about a secret ban.

The Americans would describe this as the Twilight Zone.

So help me out. When it comes to business, the Chinese have no sense of humour. Only the making money is funny, nothing else is funny. What would Chinese people call this, the equivalent to the American Twilight Zone?



What we can say, which is the same in American and in Chinese, these peoples are playing games

The games of secret agreements and secret bans is just a waste of time for the companies to figure out.

At least there is something to talk about.

The agreement is secret because there is a lot of work needed to align it with the international legal framework and details are subject to change. Hence why ASML said they don’t expect an impact in the near future. But there will be an impact eventuality if they are no longer allowed to export DUV immersion.

 

[tonyget]

no delay. you need time to increase production.

There is delay，Nanda admitted it

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[european_guy]

View attachment 106224
US industrial groups are getting impatient. Alan says he doesn't care about profits but US companies do.

As I read this, they beg the Administration to let them keep selling at least to the Chinese fabs of TSMC, Samsung and friends...this is where big volumes are at the moment. Maybe they will be granted this. I see nothing more they can get. Geopolitics always prevails over economy, especially now, when US is really obsessed by China and neocons hawks own this administration.

havok：Arf比较难验证周期也长，看新阳现有的产能只有3吨 二期规划产能是30吨，慢慢来吧

havok：Arf photoresist is difficult to verify and the cycle is long. Seeing that Xinyang's current production capacity for Arf is only 3 tons, the planned production capacity of the second phase is 30 tons. It will take time


View attachment 106229

This is a very good table with very precise capacities. I guess this table refer to current installed capacity, correct?

For photoresist the fog and smoke is even bigger than for lithography machine.

We just know about rumors, usually over hyped and over optimistic, like Nata that since 2020 (3 years ago!) has the ArF photoresist ready...but still in validation, and up to today they even do not appear in the above havoc's table (Arf belongs to Sinyang Semiconductor Materials).

A lot of vaporware in photoresist camp!

Personally I will take this table as a credible snapshot of current situation.

Another reliable source is the direct information from the companies of the already delivered tons, but also this is very rare: companies are happy to talk about what they will do, not so much about what they have already done and delivered in volumes. Unfortunately is the latter that counts.

they are working on 5nm Photoresist... but I don't know which lithographer it's for
28-7nm has been confirmed since December

28-7nm it means photoresist is for immersion Arf. Apparently they even don't have in production the dry Arf version....I don't know how to read this info.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

As I read this, they beg the Administration to let them keep selling at least to the Chinese fabs of TSMC, Samsung and friends...this is where big volumes are at the moment. Maybe they will be granted this. I see nothing more they can get. Geopolitics always prevails over economy, especially now, when US is really obsessed by China and neocons hawks own this administration.



This is a very good table with very precise capacities. I guess this table refer to current installed capacity, correct?

For photoresist the fog and smoke is even bigger than for lithography machine.

We just know about rumors, usually over hyped and over optimistic, like Nata that since 2020 (3 years ago!) has the ArF photoresist ready...but still in validation, and up to today they even do not appear in the above havoc's table (Arf belongs to Sinyang Semiconductor Materials).

A lot of vaporware in photoresist camp!

Personally I will take this table as a credible snapshot of current situation.

Another reliable source is the direct information from the companies of the already delivered tons, but also this is very rare: companies are happy to talk about what they will do, not so much about what they have already done and delivered in volumes. Unfortunately is the latter that counts.



28-7nm it means photoresist is for immersion Arf. Apparently they even don't have in production the dry Arf version....I don't know how to read this info.

if they can't sell to foreign fabs in China, it's actually a huge win for China:

Foreign fabs either:

1. close and sell their assets cheaply to Chinese competitors who gain access to vast amounts of cheap equipment, complete supply lines and already trained talent

2. are forced to buy Chinese equipment, which may lead them to find that Chinese equipment meets their operational requirements elsewhere too, and further reduce the volume of US equipment sold. And if it doesn't? Too bad, they're forced to use them or close, and their complaints will still be valuable for Chinese manufacturers to find out how to improve.

 

[resistance]

As I read this, they beg the Administration to let them keep selling at least to the Chinese fabs of TSMC, Samsung and friends...this is where big volumes are at the moment. Maybe they will be granted this. I see nothing more they can get. Geopolitics always prevails over economy, especially now, when US is really obsessed by China and neocons hawks own this administration.



This is a very good table with very precise capacities. I guess this table refer to current installed capacity, correct?

For photoresist the fog and smoke is even bigger than for lithography machine.

We just know about rumors, usually over hyped and over optimistic, like Nata that since 2020 (3 years ago!) has the ArF photoresist ready...but still in validation, and up to today they even do not appear in the above havoc's table (Arf belongs to Sinyang Semiconductor Materials).

A lot of vaporware in photoresist camp!

Personally I will take this table as a credible snapshot of current situation.

Another reliable source is the direct information from the companies of the already delivered tons, but also this is very rare: companies are happy to talk about what they will do, not so much about what they have already done and delivered in volumes. Unfortunately is the latter that counts.



28-7nm it means photoresist is for immersion Arf. Apparently they even don't have in production the dry Arf version....I don't know how to read this info.

May I ask? Is photoresist for dry ArF harder to produce than immersion one?

 

[PopularScience]

There is delay，Nanda admitted it

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that's why I said 2022-12-31 completed. No further delay.

 

[PopularScience]

As I read this, they beg the Administration to let them keep selling at least to the Chinese fabs of TSMC, Samsung and friends...this is where big volumes are at the moment. Maybe they will be granted this. I see nothing more they can get. Geopolitics always prevails over economy, especially now, when US is really obsessed by China and neocons hawks own this administration.



This is a very good table with very precise capacities. I guess this table refer to current installed capacity, correct?

For photoresist the fog and smoke is even bigger than for lithography machine.

We just know about rumors, usually over hyped and over optimistic, like Nata that since 2020 (3 years ago!) has the ArF photoresist ready...but still in validation, and up to today they even do not appear in the above havoc's table (Arf belongs to Sinyang Semiconductor Materials).

A lot of vaporware in photoresist camp!

Personally I will take this table as a credible snapshot of current situation.

Another reliable source is the direct information from the companies of the already delivered tons, but also this is very rare: companies are happy to talk about what they will do, not so much about what they have already done and delivered in volumes. Unfortunately is the latter that counts.



28-7nm it means photoresist is for immersion Arf. Apparently they even don't have in production the dry Arf version....I don't know how to read this info.

Nanta is a public listed company. They cannot reveal fake information. When they said "passed verification", then it is ready for production.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

May I ask? Is photoresist for dry ArF harder to produce than immersion one?

no! photoresist for dry ArF needs to have high absorbance for 193 nm DUV and react photochemically in such a way that causes difference in dissolution rate when placed in developer liquid. That's all. Preferably as line widths decrease, they also have low photoactive molecule diffusion length to prevent pattern smearing. Sufficient mechanical strength to prevent developed feature collapse is nice too.

photoresist for immersion ArF in addition to the above requirements also need to be compatible with an inert, waterproof topcoat. That means chemical adhesion without bubbles, reaction, mechanical distortion of the topcoat-resist interface, interdiffusion, etc and is removable without damaging the patterned resist. Alternatively, they themselves can be waterproof, but that means waterproof in all ways: no reacting with water, obviously, but also cannot absorb any water (which changes depth of focus in the resist), cannot leach anything into the water (as that may increase absorbance).

that's a high challenge.

 

[european_guy]

that's why I said 2022-12-31 completed. No further delay.

The article you refer is from 2022-03-31, they say they will delay to December 31, 2022, but it is their forecast, is not necessarily what happened. So we don't know if their plan has been confirmed or not.

In the article, among the reasons of the delay is written "especially the prolongation of the procurement cycle of key equipment such as defect detection required by the project".

Now, is this key equipment from Japan? Or even from US? If the reason of the delay is an external source, i.e. a foreign supplier that does not deliver, then they can wait forever....

Only confirmation that now is in production matters. It means there should be a written paper from them with a date more recent than the actual start of production.

Nanta is a public listed company. They cannot reveal fake information. When they said "passed verification", then it is ready for production.

Passed verification and production are 2 different things. There is a totally built and setup plant, included equipment, of difference. The customer maybe validated just the product, i.e. the photoresist, not the processing line. For this the NATA lab/pre-production line is enough to produce it.