CV-16, CV-17 STOBAR carrier thread (001/Liaoning, 002/Shandong)
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
I don't believe that... where else is India going to get Carrier fighters from? Rafale? Tejas? J-15 (lol)?
Where to get the magazine if I am outside China?A magazine cover.
Well, considering that Kievs with their horrible yak-38s actually had higher flight rates than Kuznetsov has ever had ...
they're just doing this properly, unlike the unlucky elder sister.
Agreed. As someone who is generally quite positive on the learning experience of PLAN with carrier aviation, this isnt near the achievement some may think it sounds like. Sortie rates of Kuznetsov were always pretty theoretical in nature, a real token force hamstrung by all sorts of issues.
Well we know Liaoning and Shandong are receiving more TLC than Kuznetsov ever did. Previously we've never been able to quantify that but with the recent promotional videos from Liaoning and particularly shots from inside the engine room has allowed us to do a comparison:
Liaoning:
Kuznetsov:
Photos of nearly identical parts of the two ships, I think that's nuff said about their conditions. Question is what did Kuznetsov look like when she was new. Was her more like Liaoning and the current state reflect hard use + bad maintenance or was Liaoning's refit just to a higher standard than Kuznetsov originally to start with.
I believe PLAN take meticulous care of their valuable assets. Liaoning is only one of them! In fact all the military services.
*Off topic.
Go on Taobao, buy it from any book merchant, and use a transfer merchant to air freight it to you. Might take a couple of weeks though and will cost alot more quid than the magazine itself. The popular issues like when the H-20 CG showed up might cost you more time since they have to reprint.
Otherwise get like half yearly/yearly back issues on taobao and get it shipped to you via sea freight, much cheaper but takes like a month and a half to arrive lol.
Rafale and super hornet are both not really usable for the carriers Vikrant and Vikramaditya. Here is a picture of Mig29k on Vikramaditya (with no edge lift). See the narrow fit on that, yikes.
The Russians really pulled one on IN here. Keep in mind Rafale-M does not have folding wings. Just imagine what kind of operational tempo you can get with that type of tight fit. They might be able to fit Rafale-M on the Vikrant edge elevators, but they will have to be very careful (meaning very slow operation)
It's kind of unfair to compare Yak-38 operational rate with Su-33. Su-33 is a much larger, complex and capable aircraft compared to Yak-38. The joke was that you can take-off with a Yak-38, fly 2 circles around the carrier and then it had to land.
Just take a look at a su-33. you have to fold both the wings and the horizontal tail surfaces. And it has canards. Also being a modern 4th gen heavy fighter jet, it just needs more upkeep time than something like Yak-38. So, su-33/J-15s' general availability and getting ready to fly, to take off and land will take so much more work.
btw, I don't quite remember this now, but did PLAN make any modifications in elevators from Kuznetsov to CV-16 and then to CV-17? Can they fit more than 1 J-15 per lift?
It's actually unfair in another direction - yak-38 ops were not just experimental, they were outright dangerous. Moreover, they were essentially a tertiary force, an afterthought - after ships' main armament (strongly suggest visiting Kiev theme park in Tianjin - main caliber magazine alone is worth the trip!) and helicopter wing.
Su-33(and J-15), for all its failings, is a fully developed, 100% combat-capable aircraft, sitting on a ship built around it as its primary system and reason d'etre.
The simple reason, in the end, was that the 1980s Soviet navy was...a thing, and actually thought in terms of having to fight a war.