JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[nitesh]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

There have been no indication so far that PLAAF will buy them or not. But I disagree that it will affect JF-17's sales. It was always intended to be an export item, and it has already attracted 3 foriegn customers and a dozen more have expressed interested.

Can you please provide the name of other countries besides pakistan please.

 

[Delbert]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

No Russia actually operates 449 Su-27s. IAF wouldn't have purchased the Su-30, if Russia itself wouldn't have had it in numbers.

As far as I am concerned SU-27 is a completely different aircraft from SU-30. And the Russian Airforce has only exactly 9 aircraft (though some say 10).

Anyway... Does anybody have updates about the decision PLAAF is planning for JF-17? I am really curious about this aircraft (Wether it will be deployed by PLAAF or not...

 

[Indianfighter]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

I think JF-17 has no competition at the moment. JF-17's biggest selling point is its price. It offers fairly modern capabilities, for $15-20 million per aircraft. No other aircraft can even come close to offering that value. All the poor countries will give it serious consideration.

Marketing it to countries who can afford F-16s, Gripens and other light 4th gen fighters will be tougher, and will depend on how the JF-17 performs with the PAF, and how successful it is at adapting to French and other upgrades.

The thing is that most countries are now able to afford Su-27/30, MiG-29 and even F-16. Third world Countries like Eritrea, Ethiopia and Vietnam for example have ordered more Su-27s now.

So yes, commercially JF-17 does end up competing with these large fighters though its not of the same class. On top of this, there is uncertainty over whether PLAAF itself will ever buy any FC-1, which will make customers more wary.

One way that China can market the FC-1 is by packaging it as the next step beyond the successful J-7.

Russia and India have both claimed multiple times that the Su-30 is a completely different aircraft than the Su-27.

There's been no such claim. Su-30 is only the twin-seater variant of the Su-27 (if you didn't know by now).

 

[Indianfighter]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

TPHuang, just wanted to confirm if FC-1 costs as low as $15 million, because I was reminded today that $24 million is the unit cost of a Hawk trainer which IAF purchased last month. A combat jet with weapons will surely cost more than that. Even LCA is estimated to cost no less than $30 million per unit.

I think $15 m is a figure that used to appear half a decade back in 2002-03 when the old sinodefence was around. I doubt if this figure has not escalated.

 

[tphuang]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

As far as I am concerned SU-27 is a completely different aircraft from SU-30. And the Russian Airforce has only exactly 9 aircraft (though some say 10).

Anyway... Does anybody have updates about the decision PLAAF is planning for JF-17? I am really curious about this aircraft (Wether it will be deployed by PLAAF or not...

they are not that different. Just a different block of flankers, that's all.

PLAAF will get jf-17. I commented about it on my blog, but the interest lie in 3 areas:
1. cheap fighter
2. ground attacker
3. trainer

TPHuang, just wanted to confirm if FC-1 costs as low as $15 million, because I was reminded today that $24 million is the unit cost of a Hawk trainer which IAF purchased last month. A combat jet with weapons will surely cost more than that. Even LCA is estimated to cost no less than $30 million per unit.

I think $15 m is a figure that used to appear half a decade back in 2002-03 when the old sinodefence was around. I doubt if this figure has not escalated.

It depends on the version and production total. Obviously, the PAF version will cost more because PAF is trying to make this fighter as good as possible. Which, I personally think is a mistake, because it should be a cheap BVR fighter that would be useful in a battle of attrition. That's what plaaf is going to do. They certainly can't afford to trade J-10s for F-16s. But generally speaking, I see PLAAF JF-17s flyaway cost to be 10 to 15 million(not including weapon cost).

 

[FugitiveVisions]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

The fly-away cost, which does not incorporate a lot of the fixed costs such as R&D and weapons testing, is more of a marginal cost and is more appropriate for calculating the price of exports. 15~20 million a piece would make sense in this case. Domestic orders for China and Pakistan probably cost a little more with the added fixed costs.

 

[tphuang]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

The fly-away cost, which does not incorporate a lot of the fixed costs such as R&D and weapons testing, is more of a marginal cost and is more appropriate for calculating the price of exports. 15~20 million a piece would make sense in this case. Domestic orders for China and Pakistan probably cost a little more with the added fixed costs.

when I say the fly away cost, I'm talking about the cost that PLAAF pays, which is basically the cost of production, testing + 10% profit. But of course, PLAAF can always charge a huge margin on top and they probably will. For example, they charged Nigeria $11 million for each F-7s and the plaaf price is probably 1/3 of that.

 

[Indianfighter]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

It depends on the version and production total. Obviously, the PAF version will cost more because PAF is trying to make this fighter as good as possible. Which, I personally think is a mistake, because it should be a cheap BVR fighter that would be useful in a battle of attrition. That's what plaaf is going to do. They certainly can't afford to trade J-10s for F-16s. But generally speaking, I see PLAAF JF-17s flyaway cost to be 10 to 15 million(not including weapon cost).

I think you too are guessing and don't have latest figures. It's hard to believe that a transonic Hawk trainer costs nearly $10 million more than any FC-1 variant. That figure too is without weapons.

My estimate of a non-weaponised FC-1's cost is $25+ million. Add to that a plummeting dollar, and it will gradually approach $30 m.

Speaking of PAF, it doesn't have much choice after truncating their purchase of F-16 and plans to induct only a few J-10s (if at all). This is the only fighter that they have to boost their capabilities, and I agree they're trying very hard. From South African T Darters to Italian AESA radars, PAF wants it to be as lethal as possible.

 

[RedMercury]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Perhaps we should talk about fighter costs in Euro But plummeting dollar actually makes a Chinese export cheaper.

 

[Londo Molari]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

The thing is that most countries are now able to afford Su-27/30, MiG-29 and even F-16. Third world Countries like Eritrea, Ethiopia and Vietnam for example have ordered more Su-27s now.

JF-17 has attracted 3 customers in less than a year. That is nothing compared to how long it took to attract customers for other fighters. The JF-17 is just getting started. There is HUGE demand in the world for low-cost fighters. And low-cost does not mean $40 million/piece.

There's been no such claim. Su-30 is only the twin-seater variant of the Su-27 (if you didn't know by now).

lol