Ukrainian War Developments

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Luckin Coffee here we come!

Or maybe this coffee store chain seen in Crimea.
VeofN6L.png
 

taxiya

Brigadier
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Yes.

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From the Chinese readout, not much different from Wang Yi's conference. Putting "sovereignty and territorial integrity" and UN Charter before "legitimate security concerns" in the list of things to be respected.
That three points in the paragraph should not be read as one before the other, but equally important. To make them having orders, there need be words like "首先,而且,还要"/"first of all, but also", something like this. Political statement are very strictly formulated. Not a word too many, not a word too less.
People on this thread were discussing Ukrainian recognition of Crimea annexation or Donbas independence. I always thought such terms will be diffcult for Beijing to endorse. I still think the ideal solution from China's perspective is for Ukraine to commit to not joining NATO and leave the status of Crimea and Donbas undecided. China's fine with de facto Russian control but not de jure independence.
Because of the first two points China will not recognize the two Donbass republics' independence. But a Russian annexation like Crimea would actually save China's trouble, because China won't talk about where the Russian border is in Europe.
 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yep. Looks like the Poles are trolling the US. After Blinken said the US had given the Poles the green light to transfer their MiG-29 to Ukraine now the Ukrainians say they will move their MiG-29 to a US airbase in Germany. It is a political hot potato and they are just passing the ball to each other on who will start WW3

Yeah. it's kind of ridiculous if one look at it, especially if Article 5 is brought in.

Since article 5 clearly states that attack on 1 NATO allies means attack on all NATO allies including the US. it's esentially a WWIII Anyway Which Putin may not want to risk, thus logically Poland can just give the MiG's directly to Ukraine.

Giving it to US means stalled delivery, like, who knows what bureaucratic snags or inspections they would do, and Ukraine kinda need an airforce quick. Unless Poland doesn't really believe article 5 and NATO will protect them.
 

lapain

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Richard Santos

Captain
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So many of its neighbours really, really hate Russia:


Still, Putin's war has managed to unify NATO for another 50 years, probably expand it to include Sweden and Finland, and caused Germany to re-arm. On top of demolishing Russia's own economy. So great job all round!
In the longer run, it will be clear that the threat from russia resulted from repeatedly breaking treaties with russia and ignoring russian warning about pushing rough russia’s security perimeter. The US can freely try to kill russia through death of a thousand cuts so long as it makes certain each cut is below the threshold of all out nuclear exchange. But the price Europe, particularly western europe, must pay for such a course will be much higher. There is also no real interest in western europe outside britain for it. it could be said that the US covered itself with a human shield made up of EU members and ukraine while jabbing at russia repeatedly hoping to inflict a lethal blow.

So i think the assessment that putin’s war will unify NATO for 50 years is superficial and emotion clouded.

I think in the long run Putin’s war will highlight fundamental divergence of interest between western Europe on the one hand, and the US and eastern europe on the other, and in 5-10 years stress internal unity of EU and NATO well beyond foreign policy issue since the start of the 2001 Iraq war.
 

sheogorath

Colonel
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This whole performative bs by western corporations stopping operations in Russia might have the opposite effect and actually convince the average Russian that they are indeed under siege, instead of what they expect.

Also, stopping the export of raw materials is going to play a number on western industry and econmy as well, particularly if they decide to sanction China too. Is like the west is being run by a bunch of bumbling baboons who forgot the global neoliberal order they pushed for is a two way street...
 
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