Ladakh Flash Point

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rhino123

Pencil Pusher
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Well if the Indians are gonna use their Brahmos missiles. They are still gonna invite a Chinese retaliation or pre-emptive strike. Doesn't matter if they are shooting at military or civilian targets.

If India is deploying Brahmos missiles as deterrence. Then its not a strong one against the PLA. The PLA has many more cards to play against India if India decides to use their Brahmos.
What you say is correct. But India might being weaker in all aspect might still made use of this tactic... To quickly hurt the Chinese forces and hopefully making the lost unacceptable for the Chinese, so much so that the Chinese would not want such a confrontation to begin with. Many weaker armies do that to deter a full out attack by a stronger army
 

Xizor

Captain
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Nukes on Brahmos? I know the Jai Hinds would love it. But from all the big noises coming out of India. There are no indications that Brahmos will be nuclear tipped. Are there sources that indicates that they have nuclear Brahmos? Or are those Indian fake news sensationalism?

Anyway if India wants to go nuclear. Why use Brahmos? They should be using the Agnis. Those can reach the major cities and bases. Off course once things get that far, it's a full blown nuclear war. Even if India uses tactical nukes on military targets, it'll still invite full-blown nuclear retaliation from China. Its just not worth the risk of nuclear war.

India have been touting about their Brahmos 'Wunderwaffe' since the 2010s. Before, it was against the PLAN. Now its for 'border defence'. I have no doubts that their Brahmos missile can hurt China. But it won't be at 'Wunderwaffe' levels of hurt. China OTOH has conventional missiles can do a lot more hurt on India.
Indeed, you are right that the hints of nuclear arming Brahmos is/maybe Indian Wikipedia wizardry. I took it as a possibility without probing further as India has a nuclear weapons program and Brahmos is a potent missile. The wiki links this Sputnik piece.
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Although i think miniaturization would be the biggest challenge.
And India is developing other supersonic/ hypersonic cruise missiles (and trying to reverse engineer and substitute Russian systems in Brahmos). Don't know how it will affect MTCR stipulations and such but India isn't at a disadvantage diplomatically.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
As Hu Xujin put it, India is now going to have an expensive border with China, all of those indian taxpayer monies going into white elephant military projects, leaving india as another USSR but this time without the scientific advances and strong educational/industrial infrastructure.
I don't believe India is the next USSR. They are an aggressive, racist middle power bankrupting themselves in the short run by military buildup and using slavery to make up the difference. They're going to bite off more than they can chew and get pummeled for it.

Basically they are the next Nazi Germany.
 

Overbom

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I don't believe India is the next USSR. They are an aggressive, racist middle power bankrupting themselves in the short run by military buildup and using slavery to make up the difference. They're going to bite off more than they can chew and get pummeled for it.

Basically they are the next Nazi Germany.
China is busy diverting India's attention away from its real strength. Its people.

They have such a big population that if they were able to make basicI investments to it they would grow explosively.

Fortunately, India has neglected its people and has started wasting its demographic dividend.
Couple that with the 4th industrial revolution, and India is in big trouble.

So, India please send more soldiers to the border. More military purchases from foreign countries. More money to military budget :)
 

FairAndUnbiased

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China is busy diverting India's attention away from its real strength. Its people.

They have such a big population that if they were able to make basicI investments to it they would grow explosively.

Fortunately, India has neglected its people and has started wasting its demographic dividend.
Couple that with the 4th industrial revolution, and India is in big trouble.

So, India please send more soldiers to the border. More military purchases from foreign countries. More money to military budget :)
there's a reason why India
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it is the same economic rationale. Germany was calorie poor yet had a high labor demand.
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.
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Their mad militarism is setting up all of Asia for a tragedy.
 

MwRYum

Major
Isn't China have Brahmos-equivalent offered for export? If that's the case, they certainly have systems to counter such already in place too, doesn't it?
 

Strangelove

Colonel
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Love the headline.

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The Indian military on Thursday told the Supreme Court: If the Indian Army cannot move its missile launchers and heavy machinery up to the northern China-India border, then how will it defend it and fight a war if it breaks out? The remarks were made when the Indian military requested to expand the Char Dham project roads leading to India-China border.

The Indian military's position on moving missile launchers to the border is clearly sending signals to China, showing New Delhi's hard-line stance against Beijing. But if India wants to deter China by virtue of this position, the country cannot achieve it. Once a military conflict breaks out between China and India, it is a contest of overall national strength between the two countries. An overall situation will not change due to partial deployment.

India (especially its military and media outlets) has spared no effort hyping the "China threat," especially since the Galwan Valley conflict of June 2020. This is mainly because the Modi government requires an external target to solidify its forces and gain support. This is a bid to divert domestic attention on voices criticizing the Modi government. The so-called China threat is just one of such an excuse.

But the "China threat" does not exist. China has not been at war for decades. China has settled territorial disputes with many neighboring countries through peaceful negotiations. China is willing to deal with China-India border disputes by peaceful means as well.

India should also be very clear about China's such intent. In the past decades, border disputes and contradictions have always existed between China and India, but the peace and tranquility have been maintained for decades. This indicates that these disputes do not necessarily lead to conflict, confrontation or even war between China and India. It is all about how the two countries see and deal with these disputes.

However, for the sake of elections, the Indian government sometimes exploits the border disputes with China to serve its political goal. Against such backdrop, the situation between China and India will become tense. The responsibility is totally on the Indian side.

When attending a summit on Thursday evening, General Bipin Rawat, India's Chief of Defense Staff, said China is the biggest security threat facing India.

If New Delhi insists on seeing Beijing as a threat for the sake of politics, engaging in moves such as provoking China at border, inciting radical nationalist sentiment against China, and leading or joining anti-China campaigns internationally, Beijing will respond accordingly when these moves threaten China's national security.

Consequently, frictions between China and India may be radicalized, turning China into a real "threat" to India. After all, China is much stronger in terms of national power. Therefore, the genuine threat to India is its own miscalculated strategy and diplomacy and the unrealistic nationalism ignited by irresponsible politicians and media.

Since the border frictions last year, New Delhi has repeatedly flexed its muscles. But behind such moves is the mentality of a loser. India still cannot let go the complete 1962 defeat to China, and wants to wipe the shame off one day. However, it doesn't have enough strength to do so. This being the case, the Indian government is trying to tell Indian society that their government and military are capable so as to gain political support domestically. While internationally, India needs to show its muscle to make other smaller South Asian countries surrender.

Rawat also said, "India needs the United States and Russia, both… We need both to be on our sides if we have to fight China if the need arises." This shows that India has admitted to the fact that it is weak - and it has no confidence in such a war.

If a war really breaks out between China and India, the US will take the Indian side for sure. It will support anything that jeopardizes China without judging if it is just. However, Washington will unlikely send troops. Intelligence sharing can be a possible partnership, as well as arms sales to India, economic assistance, and condemnation of China in the international community.

Given the current international landscape, it is impossible for Russia to take sides with India. At most, Moscow will do something to mediate while keeping neutral. As a matter of fact, Russia is not satisfied with India's move of tilting toward the US. So it is more of India's wishful thinking to gain support from Russia.

Rawat's statement was actually made to embolden India. This reveals that India is not militarily capable, nor does it have confidence to fight China.

The author is a senior research fellow with the Academy of Regional and Global Governance at the Beijing Foreign Studies University and president of the Chengdu Institute of World Affairs. [email protected]
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Isn't China have Brahmos-equivalent offered for export? If that's the case, they certainly have systems to counter such already in place too, doesn't it?
Yes. But India insists Barak 8 ( israeli) is the only system capable enough to destroy a low altitude supersonic Brahmos. Don't know if this is true or a marketing strategy. Anyway, Barak 8 is exported to India and Azerbaijan.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes. But India insists Barak 8 ( israeli) is the only system capable enough to destroy a low altitude supersonic Brahmos. Don't know if this is true or a marketing strategy. Anyway, Barak 8 is exported to India and Azerbaijan.
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Song said that despite the theoretical threat to China's border security, the People's Liberation Army has been strengthening its air defense capability to intercept supersonic cruise missiles like the BrahMos.
 
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