Ladakh Flash Point

[longmarch]

At the end of day, what matters is, what's changed on the ground, what people believe had happened.

What's changed on the ground? Maybe a little here and there, but not much.

What people believe had happened? For all these incidents, PLA was portraited by India as the agressor being humiliated, India the victim and the victor. This is to feed their jingoism ego, garner domestic political gain, as well as provide ammunition to foreign powers as India always need them.
It's behavior of China side puzzling. Almost amounts to complete silence, always.
PLA is not just afraid of escalation, they want their opponent know that they are afraid of escalation, thus "show maximum constraint".
But I never heard Mao saying "be afraid, be very afraid"?
If there is tiniest chance of releasing evidence can achieve anything, is it not immediate reaction rather than more than a year later?
I'll never be able to understand. Either they are super smart, or super stupid. Looking at how things have been going in the last 60 years, more likely the latter.

 

[ougoah]

At the end of day, what matters is, what's changed on the ground, what people believe had happened.

What's changed on the ground? Maybe a little here and there, but not much.

What people believe had happened? For all these incidents, PLA was portraited by India as the agressor being humiliated, India the victim and the victor. This is to feed their jingoism ego, garner domestic political gain, as well as provide ammunition to foreign powers as India always need them.
It's behavior of China side puzzling. Almost amounts to complete silence, always.
PLA is not just afraid of escalation, they want their opponent know that they are afraid of escalation, thus "show maximum constraint".
But I never heard Mao saying "be afraid, be very afraid"?
If there is tiniest chance of releasing evidence can achieve anything, is it not immediate reaction rather than more than a year later?
I'll never be able to understand. Either they are super smart, or super stupid. Looking at how things have been going in the last 60 years, more likely the latter.

China won Aksai Chin now. That is the change as buffer for almost all of the previously patrolled land is secured.

PLA was the victor and no sane person would believe otherwise. Nowadays only the most hardcore of Jai Hind trolls still carry that attitude but they've been reduced to showing bollywood movie clips.

PLA proved India was unable to escalate. India refused to counter PLA's response to Indian moves. India got exposed by PLA as soon as PLA occupied Finger 4 on Pangong lake and India started only one method it knew which was attacking PLA positions they thought were undermanned. India was humiliated with over 50 Indians captured, 20 killed, 10 officers captured (not included in the 50 which is minimum count) and still lost the objective.

China wanted to negotiate for buffer and didn't release too much detail. In fact to this day, it has not released that much detail. The more recent released pictures only show the Chinese side's story is more accurate from day 1 and claims from day 1.

Unfortunately India was left looking stupid and exposed as a liar throughout this ordeal. Modi is exposed as well but bhakts are stupid and will not question him. This is the irony of it. Anyway hope that summarises it up for you since you're clearly not too familiar with this topic.

 

[ougoah]

LOL and if PLA wants the opponent to know PLA fears escalation why would PLA move into the 20% remaining dispute and occupy it for over 8 months waiting for Indian escalation? Indians surrendered their soldiers and rifles before they made any real moves.

 

[ougoah]

Around 40 in just this photo alone… I think probably 100 were captured in total.

Chinese leaks say it was well over 100 Indians rounded up. They reported 50 and 10 officers so 60 in total.

Indians are very upset but not upset at Modi. They've melted completely and aren't even up to usual form with their trolling. Typical backhanded comments yuck. lol

I'll never be able to understand Indians. Get asses whooped and the other guy saves your face for nearly a year and then proceed to talk about the guy who saved your face and as soon as they started another propaganda campaign talking about detaining 200 PLA, China releases some photos to remind them who saved their face and immediately these coward Indians retract their propaganda and say sorry sarrr you're right I didn't detain any PLA.

Typical Jai Hindia. Honestly beyond pathetic but here they are sniveling about the shit they started and the propaganda campaigns they've been waging. It's unreal. Then some trolls come pretending to be all ignorant and ignoring every single part that humiliates them and goes back to square one with the whole "Chinese are stupid" in backhanded comments and "nothing has changed we Indians are still mighty and victorious".

Cannot make this shit up it's frightening how pathetic these Jai Hinds are. Real bastards who will stop at nothing to twist the truths and always want to make sure you know and agree they are supa powa and winah.

 

[twineedle]

At the end of day, what matters is, what's changed on the ground, what people believe had happened.

What's changed on the ground? Maybe a little here and there, but not much.

What people believe had happened? For all these incidents, PLA was portraited by India as the agressor being humiliated, India the victim and the victor. This is to feed their jingoism ego, garner domestic political gain, as well as provide ammunition to foreign powers as India always need them.
It's behavior of China side puzzling. Almost amounts to complete silence, always.
PLA is not just afraid of escalation, they want their opponent know that they are afraid of escalation, thus "show maximum constraint".
But I never heard Mao saying "be afraid, be very afraid"?
If there is tiniest chance of releasing evidence can achieve anything, is it not immediate reaction rather than more than a year later?
I'll never be able to understand. Either they are super smart, or super stupid. Looking at how things have been going in the last 60 years, more likely the latter.

The biggest change on the ground is India now has forward camps as well as infrastructure in disputed areas that had been patrolled far more by China until China was forced to accept buffer zones.

 

[ougoah]

At the end of day, what matters is, what's changed on the ground, what people believe had happened.

Yes exactly what's reality which is not what India is concerned about. What's changed is India lost its right to patrol no man's land. It also got Aksai Chin taken further away from them. Previously Indians could step on soil that is right on Aksai China and now they are over 10km away.

What people believe happened is a tricky one. People like Jai Hinds can believe what they want in fact they do and no amount evidence and reasoning is ever considered by jai hinds so who cares what they believe. They believe cow shit is great to smear around their faces so ... yeah.

What's changed on the ground? Maybe a little here and there, but not much.

Actually heaps... For starters what was said earlier and 100000 times on this thread. For another, Indian army knows it is a rag tag group and that PLA will respond to their moves in no man's land. Did India take over no man's land? Nope. Did India take over Aksai Chin or challenging for control over it? Nope. India has taken steps back on those of these. Did India gain anything legacy dispute? Nope. Is India gaining anything strategic? Nope. Is India able to invade? Nope.

What people believe had happened? For all these incidents, PLA was portraited by India as the agressor being humiliated, India the victim and the victor. This is to feed their jingoism ego, garner domestic political gain, as well as provide ammunition to foreign powers as India always need them.
It's behavior of China side puzzling. Almost amounts to complete silence, always.

lol oh you low little coward of a man (not an abuse just a fact here if longmarch's post is read). You can't even say what you think directly and with conviction. Find some balls and say what you mean clearly.

For the record. PLA was portrayed by India as aggressor. Is it? Well that's up to individuals to decide but the facts show that PLA didn't invade India. This all happened in no man's land between India proper and Aksai Chin (Chinese control). India's own General is on record admitting that India conducted over 10 times as many frequent patrols of no man's land. India started building within it as well in early 2020. I'd say since India initiated status quo change, it is the actual aggressor.

The world is still waiting for Indians to explain why China was aggressor. All Indian minds can come up with is the line "China tried shifting LAC westward" without a shred of evidence backing that up. The only real evidence indicates it was India trying to capture the 20% hence India attempting to shift LAC eastward... as admitted by India's previous four star general VK Singh.

India always plays victim and victor. In every situation this is India, playing victim and victor. In reality in this case, it was aggressor and loser. The one that intruded and tried to change status quo with more patrols and thinking China's busy with Covid outbreak. It also is the loser since it is forced to accept buffer deals which is China's aim not India's since buffer grants China total control of Aksai Chin and buffer is something the Indians want to and still refuses (total buffer that is).

It's the loser since it had dozens upon dozens of its soldiers captured from March to June and 10 of its officers captured for a week. It also had two of its senior officers killed. It was the one tied up and subdued. It was the one that had to surrender their weapons and get medical treatment from PLA.

I don't see what is puzzling about China's behaviour. Your ways of twisting facts and turning things to suit your narrative doesn't work against people who can talk back.

PLA is not just afraid of escalation, they want their opponent know that they are afraid of escalation, thus "show maximum constraint".
But I never heard Mao saying "be afraid, be very afraid"?
If there is tiniest chance of releasing evidence can achieve anything, is it not immediate reaction rather than more than a year later?
I'll never be able to understand. Either they are super smart, or super stupid. Looking at how things have been going in the last 60 years, more likely the latter.

Again India was exposed to be afraid of escalation. PLA beat the shit out of IA and captured dozens. Occupied no man's land for over 8 months and India did not fire a single shot at PLA. Who is the one afraid?

PLA showed constraint by lowering themselves to fist fighting the Indians and still won. Manhandling the Indians and yet the Indians have the nerve and shamelessness to call PLA wussies and sissies LOL. Your "men" were beaten to shreds by those "sissies".

If PLA opened their war machine on the Indians, not a single PLA would have perished in the struggle to defend 20% no man's land from Jai Hind invasion.

Either Indians are cowardly or stupid before but now it is proven they are both.

Modi is the greatest coward of the lot. Not daring to even speak the word China. That is how much he is dominated. Modi quivers while he placates his main bhakt jai hind crowd.

 

[Abominable]

This thread again? I was hoping it would only be reopened if something actually happened.

Chinese leaks say it was well over 100 Indians rounded up. They reported 50 and 10 officers so 60 in total.

Indians are very upset but not upset at Modi. They've melted completely and aren't even up to usual form with their trolling. Typical backhanded comments yuck. lol

I'll never be able to understand Indians. Get asses whooped and the other guy saves your face for nearly a year and then proceed to talk about the guy who saved your face and as soon as they started another propaganda campaign talking about detaining 200 PLA, China releases some photos to remind them who saved their face and immediately these coward Indians retract their propaganda and say sorry sarrr you're right I didn't detain any PLA.

Typical Jai Hindia. Honestly beyond pathetic but here they are sniveling about the shit they started and the propaganda campaigns they've been waging. It's unreal. Then some trolls come pretending to be all ignorant and ignoring every single part that humiliates them and goes back to square one with the whole "Chinese are stupid" in backhanded comments and "nothing has changed we Indians are still mighty and victorious".

Cannot make this shit up it's frightening how pathetic these Jai Hinds are. Real bastards who will stop at nothing to twist the truths and always want to make sure you know and agree they are supa powa and winah.

As I've said a few times in the thread - China's lack of transparency after the conflict created a vacuum that allowed Indian propaganda to proliferate. The Indians were creating a narrative for their own people while China was silent.

In attempting to play down the incident by not talking about it they inadvertently escalated it. You will continue to see this incident crop up for years because of it. 6 months or a year after the conflict was too little too late as most of us had already pieced together what happened and the Indian public had already made up their own minds.

If it were up to me, I would have released video footage of the Indian intrusion and their subsequent rout immediately. I would have also held on to the POW until the dust had settled. They would have been safer in the Chinese camp than the Indian side...

 

[ougoah]

The biggest change on the ground is India now has forward camps as well as infrastructure in disputed areas it previously had only patrolled.

You like talking about one sided changes huh. Never presenting the full picture.

China now has forward camps in the disputed areas and road from F5 to F8 maintained for use against India.

India has now agreed to buffer on Pangong and Galwan. That's another change that doesn't serve India's interest.

Indian army also exposed as hopeless rag tag group of violent thugs who are only capable of beating lone soldiers or attacking barely occupied positions using hundreds of men.

 

[twineedle]

Yes exactly what's reality which is not what India is concerned about. What's changed is India lost its right to patrol no man's land. It also got Aksai Chin taken further away from them. Previously Indians could step on soil that is right on Aksai China and now they are over 10km away.

What people believe happened is a tricky one. People like Jai Hinds can believe what they want in fact they do and no amount evidence and reasoning is ever considered by jai hinds so who cares what they believe. They believe cow shit is great to smear around their faces so ... yeah.



Actually heaps... For starters what was said earlier and 100000 times on this thread. For another, Indian army knows it is a rag tag group and that PLA will respond to their moves in no man's land. Did India take over no man's land? Nope. Did India take over Aksai Chin or challenging for control over it? Nope. India has taken steps back on those of these. Did India gain anything legacy dispute? Nope. Is India gaining anything strategic? Nope. Is India able to invade? Nope.




lol oh you low little coward of a man (not an abuse just a fact here if longmarch's post is read). You can't even say what you think directly and with conviction. Find some balls and say what you mean clearly.

For the record. PLA was portrayed by India as aggressor. Is it? Well that's up to individuals to decide but the facts show that PLA didn't invade India. This all happened in no man's land between India proper and Aksai Chin (Chinese control). India's own General is on record admitting that India conducted over 10 times as many frequent patrols of no man's land. India started building within it as well in early 2020. I'd say since India initiated status quo change, it is the actual aggressor.

The world is still waiting for Indians to explain why China was aggressor. All Indian minds can come up with is the line "China tried shifting LAC westward" without a shred of evidence backing that up. The only real evidence indicates it was India trying to capture the 20% hence India attempting to shift LAC eastward... as admitted by India's previous four star general VK Singh.

India always plays victim and victor. In every situation this is India, playing victim and victor. In reality in this case, it was aggressor and loser. The one that intruded and tried to change status quo with more patrols and thinking China's busy with Covid outbreak. It also is the loser since it is forced to accept buffer deals which is China's aim not India's since buffer grants China total control of Aksai Chin and buffer is something the Indians want to and still refuses (total buffer that is).

It's the loser since it had dozens upon dozens of its soldiers captured from March to June and 10 of its officers captured for a week. It also had two of its senior officers killed. It was the one tied up and subdued. It was the one that had to surrender their weapons and get medical treatment from PLA.

I don't see what is puzzling about China's behaviour. Your ways of twisting facts and turning things to suit your narrative doesn't work against people who can talk back.



Again India was exposed to be afraid of escalation. PLA beat the shit out of IA and captured dozens. Occupied no man's land for over 8 months and India did not fire a single shot at PLA. Who is the one afraid?

PLA showed constraint by lowering themselves to fist fighting the Indians and still won. Manhandling the Indians and yet the Indians have the nerve and shamelessness to call PLA wussies and sissies LOL. Your "men" were beaten to shreds by those "sissies".

If PLA opened their war machine on the Indians, not a single PLA would have perished in the struggle to defend 20% no man's land from Jai Hind invasion.

Either Indians are cowardly or stupid before but now it is proven they are both.

Modi is the greatest coward of the lot. Not daring to even speak the word China. That is how much he is dominated. Modi quivers while he placates his main bhakt jai hind crowd.

What are you talking about? India has camps much closer to the lac than 10km. Except Pangong, the buffer zones are small, at most 2km on either side of the lac. The disputed areas are far bigger than that.
Prior to 2020, India had no camps in Galwan. Now it has four along with bridges and roads.
You yourself agreed that India is occupying nire of the disputes 20%. That is because the majority of disputed areas are on India's side if the LAC, since China secured Aksai Chin(the 80%). Previously India only patrolled those areas but did not occupy them or build infrastructure under the 1993 agreement. Some of them were also patrolled far more by China. Now India has De facto control over the disputed areas that aren't buffer zones.

 

[ougoah]

This thread again? I was hoping it would only be reopened if something actually happened.


As I've said a few times in the thread - China's lack of transparency after the conflict created a vacuum that allowed Indian propaganda to proliferate. The Indians were creating a narrative for their own people while China was silent.

But that's the loser's thinking i.e. Indian. India is silent. China has explained every single detail after de-escalation. The Chinese sensibly waited until the situation de-escalated to release details and Indian gov accepted all the details with total silence.

China did not lack transparency. It said on record how many losses it suffered and what happened. India couldn't challenge it because they know it is correct and true.

India lacked transparency. India did not report on what happened and what it claimed happened was proven to be false after - Indians were totally unarmed and ambushed by Chinese. This was proven false as Indians were armed, were well equipped and attacked the Chinese in June. This is China's official narrative and India accepted it since all the evidence is there.

Indian propaganda is always there and always proliferating. At this moment they are using an Indian movie to counter new photos released.

India lacked transparency in not providing accurate narrative and when opposite narrative came out officially why didn't they challenge it or prove anything they said? How come China's side is the only one that provides any photos and videos? How come the only photo Indian provided was one they used as propaganda which was IA intruding and capturing parts of Reqin which they were very quickly pushed out of. And of course the video of them beating up a single PLA officer who exited his vehicle.

In attempting to play down the incident by not talking about it they inadvertently escalated it. You will continue to see this incident crop up for years because of it. 6 months or a year after the conflict was too little too late as most of us had already pieced together what happened and the Indian public had already made up their own minds.

If it were up to me, I would have released video footage of the Indian intrusion and their subsequent rout immediately. I would have also held on to the POW until the dust had settled. They would have been safer in the Chinese camp than the Indian side...

Crop up? secure buffer and no more incidents. Indians can invade and get annihilated or they can do these sorts of games where they still lose and gain nothing.

Just because Chinese side waited until after de-escalation and securing two buffers before showing just how humiliating this was for India, only shows China offered India so much face. More than they should to be honest.

If China released the details that the PLA beat the IA black and blue and captured dozens while IA captured 0 PLA during June and killed 4 PLA in cold blood, then I would suggest that is foolish. It would incite both sides and it would have caused so much humiliation for Modi right back in June 2020. Modi would have been forced to war basically. Something the Indian military and government dared not do and had no intention of doing. Otherwise why didn't India just go to war?? Obviously they never wanted it and preferred those million man tactics. The Chinese side was too kind to play by their rules and fist fight the Indians.