Ladakh Flash Point

[ougoah]

In all seriousness, India is in such a strong strategic position here that it's economy since 2018 has been in landslide. It's employment rate, industrial progress, living standards have all been at relative standstill since 2018. It is in a standoff it refuses to use military means to engage with (because it can't) and is failing with diplomatic means to resolve. It's capital city is within range of just rockets fired from this region. Very strong strategic position.

The only vestige of comfort the chest thumping, jai hind screamers have is to say that China hasn't taken the 20%. Believing that is China's goal. Funny thing then that India's General admitted India conducted so many more patrols on it and therefore eventually received a PLA response. PLA occupied parts of this dispute without challenge and without fail, disengaging only after India conceded agreements on not passing certain points. Funny thing that PLA proved it can take it if that was the goal. It isn't. Why on earth would China have started this situation? It knows India would defend right? So why would China start it knowing full well it would need to go shooting but stop after proving it can do it? Mayhaps the jai hinds are wrong? lol

Strategy strategy strategy. The morons still barely understand the definition of this word. The hints are out there. Apply some thinking.

China's so thoroughly outnumbered in this region by positioned Indians, Indians could supplement frontline forces much quicker (assumed since closer). Yet China seems super unprepared to get into a war with India. Perhaps China is actually the one responding? And now understands (after taking disputed for 9 months and not an indian bullet fired) it knows it doesn't need to do much because now China understands that India has no desire or appetite for any real combat. Man pushing and camping/patrolling on disputed land by India is just an attempt to gain de facto control over time. They won't fight a war over it. China is comfortable letting it be thoroughly outnumbered here with minimal air power and barely any genuine attempt at bolstering the western theatre command because at worst for China, India is prepared to stay in disputed land with temporary troop camps, something China barely bothers mirroring. I suspect China's red line would be India building permanent settlements and infrastructure within the 20% or actually making moves to take all of it.

Does anyone truly believe that India is a genuine match for China whether in regards to military, economy, or industry? No it is several leagues below it in every aspect. So how is India in a strategically enviable position in the scope of this conflict or any other? The reality is quite the opposite to such delusions. Keep enjoying worthless soundbytes of "made in China" "chinki virus" etc. That's all you'll have as you lose your last shreds of humanity with it.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

In all seriousness, India is in such a strong strategic position here that it's economy since 2018 has been in landslide. It's employment rate, industrial progress, living standards have all been at relative standstill since 2018. It is in a standoff it refuses to use military means to engage with (because it can't) and is failing with diplomatic means to resolve. It's capital city is within range of just rockets fired from this region. Very strong strategic position.

The only vestige of comfort the chest thumping, jai hind screamers have is to say that China hasn't taken the 20%. Believing that is China's goal. Funny thing then that India's General admitted India conducted so many more patrols on it and therefore eventually received a PLA response. PLA occupied parts of this dispute without challenge and without fail, disengaging only after India conceded agreements on not passing certain points. Funny thing that PLA proved it can take it if that was the goal. It isn't. Why on earth would China have started this situation? It knows India would defend right? So why would China start it knowing full well it would need to go shooting but stop after proving it can do it? Mayhaps the jai hinds are wrong? lol

Strategy strategy strategy. The morons still barely understand the definition of this word. The hints are out there. Apply some thinking.

China's so thoroughly outnumbered in this region by positioned Indians, Indians could supplement frontline forces much quicker (assumed since closer). Yet China seems super unprepared to get into a war with India. Perhaps China is actually the one responding? And now understands (after taking disputed for 9 months and not an indian bullet fired) it knows it doesn't need to do much because now China understands that India has no desire or appetite for any real combat. Man pushing and camping/patrolling on disputed land by India is just an attempt to gain de facto control over time. They won't fight a war over it. China is comfortable letting it be thoroughly outnumbered here with minimal air power and barely any genuine attempt at bolstering the western theatre command because at worst for China, India is prepared to stay in disputed land with temporary troop camps, something China barely bothers mirroring. I suspect China's red line would be India building permanent settlements and infrastructure within the 20% or actually making moves to take all of it.

Does anyone truly believe that India is a genuine match for China whether in regards to military, economy, or industry? No it is several leagues below it in every aspect. So how is India in a strategically enviable position in the scope of this conflict or any other? The reality is quite the opposite to such delusions. Keep enjoying worthless soundbytes of "made in China" "chinki virus" etc. That's all you'll have as you lose your last shreds of humanity with it.

Well, all you said seems grounded on reasonable and objective views on the ground especially when it comes to comparing relative powers and strengths of Red China vs the Jai Hind and Glorious India. May I point out that according to the resident perpetual expert at everything, master of none a.k.a. @Orthan Red China is kaput, China can't possibly comprehend all her enemies waiting to nibble at every corner just trying to time that perfect opportunity. And now that the power of Asia that is India has shored up it's troops with an additional reinforcements of 50,000 Jai Hind (each soldier is capable of killing 12 Chinese weakling PLA) soldiers, the PLA/CPC's bask in the sun is all but guaranteed over. Who needs an educated opinion when all you need is @Orthan expertise and absolute gem of an insight that frankly none of us here can ever even begin or have the "audacity" to match. I am just going to end things here before his "first ammendment rights" activist lawyer from Virginia would accuse me of being a thought police. Plus, I wasn't aware that particular American law has a universal application, man, it must be such a blessing and privileged to be an American.

 

[ougoah]

Well, all you said seems grounded on reasonable and objective views on the ground especially when it comes to comparing relative powers and strengths of Red China vs the Jai Hind and Glorious India. May I point out that according to the resident perpetual expert at everything, master of none a.k.a. @Orthan Red China is kaput, China can't possibly comprehend all her enemies waiting to nibble at every corner just trying to time that perfect opportunity. And now that the power of Asia that is India has shored up it's troops with an additional reinforcements of 50,000 Jai Hind (each soldier is capable of killing 12 Chinese weakling PLA) soldiers, the PLA/CPC's bask in the sun is all but guaranteed over. Who needs an educated opinion when all you need is @Orthan expertise and absolute gem of an insight that frankly none of us here can ever even begin or have the "audacity" to match. I am just going to end things here before his "first ammendment rights" activist lawyer from Virginia would accuse me of being a thought police. Plus, I wasn't aware that particular American law has a universal application, man, it must be such a blessing and privileged to be an American.

Well China does have enemies hoping for and working at its destruction. They want the sheep to believe it is the moral thing and they themselves within their circles do not wish to lose authority over the world. Indian lives will not be better with the destruction of China. In fact it may even get worse if they industrialise and eventually challenge the very same group that wants to remain in ultimate authority over all because then they will experience the attacks and there are plenty of ways India would be attacked in similar fashion. Jai Hinds are short sighted and often just motivated by excessive chauvinism. China does not wish to control India or take any of its actual land. That hasn't happened in the past and has no reason to happen in the future. China's geopolitical motivations are very different to those of Europe's in the past. In fact European desires to do the same has always been present. It just manifests in the form of controlling governments around the world and using economic and political blackmail to shift policies towards its favour. Something it blames China of doing. While that's beginning to become more true than it was in the past (due to rising Chinese economic and political power), China does not exercise it to anywhere near Euro-American levels to anywhere near the reach and extent they have done and China almost always uses it in defense or response to its unenviable position.

Orthan isn't wrong about China's enemies. He hasn't said much on how rightful or immoral those enemies really are but that point is accurate. The top want to push and beat down. The bottom aren't always comfortable with their peers rising well above them. It doesn't help that many times their leaders are almost entirely bought off by those at the top or at least influenced greatly under idealism. So China's strategic position in this regard is indeed unfortunate BUT it comes with the territory of being a quickly ascending "threat" to the status quo. Japan met so much resistance it is still paying the price of those past economic and political attacks now even though Japan was never ever going to be a true threat to the US in the 1980s and 1990s. Despite that, they were kneecapped. South Korea is a smaller version of that capability with a constant fear of real military conflict re-igniting. There are no threats to the domination of London-Washington except for Russia and China.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Wow the brainless conjecture here has been taken to new levels. Sarcasm with equal stupidity below.

I think India should watch out. If it moves 50,000 troops away from other stations, Pakistan and Nepal might invade. Those are strong militaries and can overwhelm India pretty easily if it is distracted with China. India should understand that it is a nation of 80% (or 1 billion) around the poverty line and in no position to open itself up to highly capable adversaries like Nepal, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka. It may even get bombed by hyperpower USA for using the terrorist angle and playing with fire in Afghanistan.

France and Russia and Israel might get paid off by China to stop supplying India and sell all the equipment secrets to China. If not, China can hack all the equipment secrets and find out for itself anyway. No use. It's obvious India can't afford a war and will get gangbanged into oblivion if it opens up one front, all will open up. I'm a super smart strategist so I know this and anyway who disagrees is a conformist and if you voice an opposition you are the forum thought police. Long live logic!

Dude you are way off when you said Nepal has strong millitary, I would have ignored it if Nepal's millitary was just decent

But nah Nepal's millitary capabilities are almost non-existent as they have no need for it
And I don't see tham attacking India due to geography, road networks they are way too dependent on India for the most basic essentials

Why would they risk it?

one angry PM won't change Nepal into a Chinese ally and certainly not the kind of ally that'll join in war

 

[Maula Jatt]

^ non of the south asian countries except for Pak are even decent

Bangladesh buys one trainer plane after another, that's literally thier AF
Nepal barely has any millitary
Sri Lanka is pretty bad too but they're not important in the convo as they have no business in anything that happens in Himalayas

 

[ougoah]

Dude you are way off when you said Nepal has strong millitary, I would have ignored it if Nepal's millitary was just decent

But nah Nepal's millitary capabilities are almost non-existent as they have no need for it
And I don't see tham attacking India due to geography, road networks they are way too dependent on India for the most basic essentials

Why would they risk it?

one angry PM won't change Nepal into a Chinese ally and certainly not the kind of ally that'll join in war

Go back and read the post again. Same with @twineedle.

woooooosh

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

Well China does have enemies hoping for and working at its destruction. They want the sheep to believe it is the moral thing and they themselves within their circles do not wish to lose authority over the world. Indian lives will not be better with the destruction of China. In fact it may even get worse if they industrialise and eventually challenge the very same group that wants to remain in ultimate authority over all because then they will experience the attacks and there are plenty of ways India would be attacked in similar fashion. Jai Hinds are short sighted and often just motivated by excessive chauvinism. China does not wish to control India or take any of its actual land. That hasn't happened in the past and has no reason to happen in the future. China's geopolitical motivations are very different to those of Europe's in the past. In fact European desires to do the same has always been present. It just manifests in the form of controlling governments around the world and using economic and political blackmail to shift policies towards its favour. Something it blames China of doing. While that's beginning to become more true than it was in the past (due to rising Chinese economic and political power), China does not exercise it to anywhere near Euro-American levels to anywhere near the reach and extent they have done and China almost always uses it in defense or response to its unenviable position.

Orthan isn't wrong about China's enemies. He hasn't said much on how rightful or immoral those enemies really are but that point is accurate. The top want to push and beat down. The bottom aren't always comfortable with their peers rising well above them. It doesn't help that many times their leaders are almost entirely bought off by those at the top or at least influenced greatly under idealism. So China's strategic position in this regard is indeed unfortunate BUT it comes with the territory of being a quickly ascending "threat" to the status quo. Japan met so much resistance it is still paying the price of those past economic and political attacks now even though Japan was never ever going to be a true threat to the US in the 1980s and 1990s. Despite that, they were kneecapped. South Korea is a smaller version of that capability with a constant fear of real military conflict re-igniting. There are no threats to the domination of London-Washington except for Russia and China.

I understand and agree to most (not all) of the points you made. I was being facetious at my remarks about this whole India vs China thing. India is simply acting or being obsequious towards their new chosen ally (master) the U.S. when it comes to China. I have yet to read from any objective analysts with an analysis that India holds any advantages over China in any meaningful sense. There has been considerable debate along with experts prognosticating then that India was going to jump ahead of China in economic development because of the almighty democracy, the one panacea that's always trotted out by Western polemics and so called intellectuals. Now here we are in 2021, the India and China contest is not even at all close, yet, like bothersome pests, the Jai Hind crowds have yet to accept this reality so rather than actually doing much needed introspection it chose to double down instead on their Jai Hind delusions so much so that India is suffering as a result of that nonsensical power projection that has no basis in reality only in imagination. Their excitement can't be controlled or helped when the master ventriloquist a.k.a. America keeps controlling and whispering to India that she's already the regional power in the region and that she must contest China in every single area of policies rather than seek cooperation and partnership.

 

[twineedle]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409529832333975556

 

[twineedle]

@twineedle This is a perfect example of the totally garbage evidence that you post. It's a neutral satellite image that shows NOTHING. The only conclusion you can draw from that is that the land exists. Your entire debate strategy consists of claiming that the Indian military achieved something against China based on neutral evidence, except your "neutral evidence" doesn't support any of your claims.

And it's not hard to understand that Indian sources that admit failure are trustworthy but those that claim victory are not because India's default is failure and a person known for lying to bolster himself will rightfully be doubted when he claims success but not when he claims defeat. It's the logic that he always pads his failures by a factor of ~X so anything that a claimed success, when ~X is subtracted, is likely a failure, and anything that's already a failure, when you factor in the subtraction of ~X, likely means a failure of a larger degree. Just like if you have a friend who always claims to win fights against several big guys but is always proven by witnesses and security camera footage to be lying and have lost every fight afterwards, you'd call him a liar every time he says he won another fight. But if he calls you one day and says he's bleeding out in a ditch, you don't think he's lying like usual; you race to find him cus you believe he probably got beaten so bad this time he'll die if you don't get him to the hospital soon. India's that guy.

@KYli Good. The number one cause of Indian military casualties is fratricide. The more the better; it's like a room full of people wearing spikes all over them LOL

@Orthan You mean it's better to be weak and unnoticed so no major powers are interested in antagonizing you? For some, that is a better living. Not for any aspiring superpower though.

Perhaps you should learn your military history. The land army is the most vulnerable and must be defended by the air force. But it's pointless to discuss that here because China has an absolute advantage over India in every military domain.

If you actually read my post, you would know that I was simply showing a patrol point. i never said there was anything there. however, you can clearly see that close to that point, there are remnants of a PLA camp that was withdrawn.

The point of that post was to show where the Hot Springs standoff point is located, based on the evidence provided in the India Today article, since there has been some confusion over where exactly the standoff point is because there are multiple areas known as Hot Springs.

Maybe next time you should take the time to properly read and understand context before you troll.

 

[manqiangrexue]

If you actually read my post, you would know that I was simply showing a patrol point. i never said there was anything there.

Your map even fails to establish that as a patrol point. It's just any satellite coordinate that you point it to. It literally shows only the existence of land.

however, you can clearly see that close to that point, there are remnants of a PLA camp that was withdrawn.

Nope, I cannot see it. Copy the picture and circle what you say is a remnant of a PLA camp and why it cannot be the remnant of an Indian camp. or anything else at all. Then, indicate what it means, in that order. Because China can take by force, then give by contract. What is your point? But first, you need to show what remnants you are talking about.

The point of that post was to show where the Hot Springs standoff point is located, based on the evidence provided in the India Today article, since there has been some confusion over where exactly the standoff point is because there are multiple areas known as Hot Springs.

Except it does not show anything except the existence of land. How does a picture of an empty plot with a red marker pointing to wherever you ask Google to point show that this is the area of the standoff? Anybody can take a random plot, put a red marker on it and say this is the area of a standoff.

Maybe next time you should take the time to properly read and understand context before you troll.

You'll have to earn it if you want my time reading all your crap. If I take a random sample and it doesn't make sense, then I take another random sample and it's garbage as well, the rest isn't worth reading. The context is that India always spins failure into victory and unfortunately for you, the definition of troll isn't someone who makes points that you cannot refute.