Please stop trolling with same unverified news clips copied from here and there. Seriously I don’t believe even 10% of news coming out of Indian media is credible or eligible for debate and discussion.
Ladakh Flash Point
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What do you think is the difference between the Indo-Sino territorial dispute and China's disputes with those Central and Southeast Asian states?
That video of Indian troops dancing (search months of August and September 2020) was everywhere in Indian media and also shown in Chinese media (non mouthpieces) and Chinese state media (mouthpieces) officially declared that Indian troops intruded into Reqin during late August/early Sep. Indian media and government are a mess and often many contradictory claims made. But having said that, Indian sources of all kinds did claim that they intruded into China and captured territory and this was confirmed by China. I think it's safe to say that indeed Indian soldiers did stray into Chinese side of LAC in the south of lake region but how far in truth we don't know. We do know they were pretty quickly expelled either they left after gaining propaganda videos of Indian soldiers dancing or they were "pushed" out by PLA.
The non-official sources from China state that PLA used some non-lethal weapons on the Indians. Acoustic and microwave weapons. We know China most likely have long had various kinds of microwave weapons. What would prevent their use? It's non-lethal and hopefully don't cause any lasting injuries. It's a lot better than risking violent confrontation which might result in serious injuries, deaths, and no doubt escalations right? So put it all together. It's extremely likely Indian troops ventured into China's side on the south since both sides have either said this outright and issued videos (geolocated to east Reqin apparently).
Some Indian sources may have made those claims, but those were rejected pretty quickly by the Indian Army and journalists wit Indian Army sources. Like I said, the Indian Army clearly said all peaks occupied were on its side of the LAC, which obviously means the Indian perception. The Chinese perception is completely different.
I believe that video was on Rechin La, but on the Indian side.
The microwave weapons report was also debunked.
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The relationship between the two nations. Both consider the other antagonistic and both have fought two border skirmishes that resulted in relatively significant losses and captives and changes in status quo of the disputes.
China is unwilling to give India the last remaining 20% and India is worried what losing it means in the long term - so close to New Delhi and just north east of Kashmir.
The LAC on the southern area (of Pangong) is pretty much bilaterally agreed upon. The claim lines of course vary that goes without saying! Saying that China claims to Thakung therefore it loses is abysmally stupid. China was never between Thakung and LAC after 1962 (giving the advanced territory back to India and for claims to control line, leaving as dispute and buffer which eventually failed). Also China has offered to demarcate to points east of China's claim lines which not only suggest China has no intention of taking up to its claims but claiming further is conducive to achieving minimal actual objectives. In any case, the former point is the main one here. It's not like India pushed PLA out of Thakung to blue line. You yourself said that India put troops there (funny how it has a camp already so no it didn't "put" troops there because they were always pretty much a stones throw away) to counter any potential PLA ingress. Well that would suggest PLA didn't ingress right? So where's the victory? The reality is the opposite. India actually ingressed in the hopes of getting captured land to bargain with for the north and failed after a week or two in China.
China does claim a little further west of LAC (on the south) and India claims A LOT east of LAC (the legacy dispute, 100%). China hasn't occupied or stepped beyond the blue line in the south of pangong lake. Even after confrontations on the south end were apparent, PLA stayed on its side of LAC - eastern half of Black and Helmet top peaks etc.
If those vids used as propaganda by Indian gov was on India's side of Reqin (Rechin) then 1. that's so fucking embarrassing that's like China making a vid of PLA in Tibet and screaming victory and Jai China lol and 2. India honestly wouldn't make a big deal out of it, negating point 1, while China wouldn't have officially declared that India has intruded and if untrue India would challenge and deny it officially but they never did. In fact India spread those propaganda vids to make Modi look good.
South of lake is actually relatively stable. China doesn't cross the LAC and India has been expelled from China's side of Reqin after a quick excursion and picnic in it with some nice propaganda vids like that Modi hospital visit.
The only little part that is disputed south of lake (not counting the other major disputes) is a place where both apparently are in standoff as well but again the major issues seem to the the current standoff point north of Pangong - Depsang, Gogra, Hot springs etc. Perceptions of LAC actually differ a bit more here and claims differ far more. Again like I said in the past, China wants a buffer of the 20%, India refuses because India wants to continue claiming the 100% and hope to access it. Stalemate situation unless one initiates war. Something clearly both do not want. I know at this point jai hinds are all like "oohhhh China so weak too afraid of war" lol. Well let's just say that before this standoff China was content but India started salami slicing within 20% leading to PLA occupying Pangong F4 to F8 (4 figners into what China used to hold as control line) and then talks resulting in India agreeing to PLA disengagement on the condition that India no longer even step foot beyond F3. Modi capitulated here because it is too high profile and his opponents continue using it as a political tool against him. Elsewhere Modi has not agreed to Chinese terms of buffer or official demarcation because that would mean India completely loses any future ability to make claims on Aksai China and lands surrounding it.
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When did the Indian gov. use that as a propaganda video? the video was spread by various accounts on twitter with no gov. connection. This was the original source
I have already shown you government statements. Don't know why you are obsessed with what various people post on twitter while ignoring actual Indian Army statements and reputable defence analysts And the current Pangong disengagement deal wasn't China's initial proposal. i have already shown Indian media sources for that. The reason why it was agreed to was becasue Panong was the biggest incursion as per the Indian perception. Gogra and hot Springs are minor in comparison, as satellite imagery shows, while Depsang and Demchok are legacy issues.
And no, the LAC is not agreed to South of Pangong.
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I honestly don't know why such a simple situation is so complicated to some (seemingly) but I suspect plenty actually know it for what it truly is.
Give me 10 mins with any person with a few maps and the situation and entire history can be explained pretty easily.
Give me 10 mins with any person with a few maps and the situation and entire history can be explained pretty easily.
Indian gov = Indian military. It's a tautology.
I recall (and okay I may be wrong here) that Indian military men did share that video and it was reported in Indian media everywhere. If it wasn't indian gov sanctioned it is damn strange it made no effort to make any statement to counter it and declare the news false since it was fairly dangerous news to keep un-debunked if it weren't true.
Again, if it is not China's side, then that's absolutely humiliating for Indian military. They're celebrating what? making it out for a stroll on their own side while all the claims say they are within China? How come China says they're within China? And Indian gov not refuting that? This wasn't tourists visiting the general area or soldiers doing yoga sort of propaganda but troops celebrating "capturing" something.
Truth is they were on China's side of LAC. But the strategic purpose of capturing for bargaining failed because they seem to not have realised that to bargain you not only need to capture (that's easy since no PLA there) but also hold it when PLA does get there to meet you. When they did, the news in China suggested that non-lethal weapons were used at a distance for greatest efficiency, Indians immediately vacating after non-lethals used. Makes sense since after that China claims no more intrusion of Indians and then vids of PLA on peak of Black Top and Helmet Top. Makes sense to use microwaves and acoustic weapons since no long term harm, and 100% effectiveness without risking any more escalation that could get out of control and cause disruptions to negotiation table.
When did the indian army or government say it had crossed its perception of the LAC? I have shown you several official Indian statements. You are going by what anonymous twitter sources say.
And the reason why the Kailash range op. was so significant was because that was the first time the Indian side was occupied since 1962, previously it was a buffer zone.
India's occupation of the heights did give it an edge in bargaining, since PLA dropped its demand of equidistant disengagement and restored status quo ante, as described by Colonel S. Dinny.
I have provided multiple Indian army sources that said India didn't cross the LAC(its perception). And this is what Nitin gokhale, one of the most reputable defence analysts in India, said India's positions were
previously, all that was a buffer zone, and Indian camps were well behind even the Chinese perception.
i still have yet to see even a single Indian army statement that said India crossed its perception of the LAC.
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