Chinese semiconductor industry

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voyager1

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I think we have deviated from the thread's main discussion topic.

I suggest to continue this interesting discussion to the relevant thread
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
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Thats true that Hu didn't get it straightaway, but he is considered to have been the paramount leader of China from 2004 to 2012
@antiterror13 Sir compare to Jiang he only had 8 years to formulate his policy and 4 years to implement it due to Jiang appointees hold on key position and power hampering his effort, he lacks the authority to implement early changes within the bureaucracy. A prime example is Bo Xilai , who is a princeling and an untouchable his downfall led to Xi ascendant, partly due to the elders and other faction coming together to appoint him to fix the burgeoning problems. And when he assume the leadership the first thing he immediate did is a purge. A lesson he learned from HU administration.

And Sir I stop here as @voyager1 had suggested but I like to discuss it more on its appropriate thread. ;)
 
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krautmeister

Junior Member
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I never criticized Xi, and I am not criticizing him here. You are right that growth rates have natural limits.

However, the export growth rates during Hu's term are the highest and most consistent of this entire 33 year period. (In fact, Hu's export boom might have been the biggest in all of Chinese history).

Surely he deserves some credit?
The credit I give HU is that he didn't do anything stupid or f*ck things up. If you are the leader of anything, I expect leadership. He didn't lead anything. That's my problem with him. It's like industrial magnates in the semiconductor industry who go for maximum profits without regard for the danger they are exposed to because they rely on others to protect them when the sh*t hits the fan with American semiconductor sanctions. Real leaders will push forward development 1 way or another because they are in the position to do something about it. So, when you are the leader of China and you spend 10 years doing literally almost nothing that stands out in any way, it means you are a paper pusher, a very replaceable bureaucrat.

Take Xi Jinping. Look at what he did related to China's society and culture. He tackled fundamental problems that were decades old in less than 10 years. For example, the corruption problem in China was pervasive throughout government and society at large. Leadership filters down to the citizens at large. What do we see today? We see pervasive government corruption at something under 1-2% of what it used to be only 10 years ago. Glaring corruption like officials driving expensive cars or holding banquets every other week are now a rarity unless it's some kind of convention. You see this reflected down the ranks and down into the citizenry.

Take poverty alleviation. If you only look at the numbers, you will think the most accomplishment was the first 80% brought out of absolute poverty. No, those are the easy targets because those 80% were the poor living along the coastal provinces and the flat northern plains. The last 15-20% of absolute poor live in mountainous, arid, desolate, isolated,...basically Sh**ty environments. Nowhere in the world has the poverty issue been solved for people living in such conditions. Xi Jinping, as the leader said they are going to do it, come hell or high water. They used "First Principles" to look for the solutions and they did it. That is "LEADERSHIP".

Talk about Strategic leadership, Xi decided to build those South China Sea islands in preparation for what was expected to be a sustained containment campaign by the Anglo-Americans. How do I know this? During the Obama Administration, BEFORE the Pivot to Asia there was public talks about starting an Asian NATO and talk of permanently stationing the bulk of the American naval fleet to the Pacific theatre in the vicinity between Japan, S.Korea, Guam, Australia and India. There were numerous reports of American strategy to strangle China and starve it via naval blockade in the South China Sea where they could hide their nuclear submarines in the deep seas there to launch LACM (Land Attack Cruise Missiles) at will at China's nearby industrialized coastal provinces. THAT is the reason for the artificial islands. It was in response to an imminent threat of a new Asian NATO before that plan could be realized. Now, no Southeast Asian country will dare to join an Asian NATO and it allows China to at least trade in the vicinity of Asia without being blockaded at least there. It is far harder for submarines to do this to China in the East China Sea because the seas are much shallower there and far easier to detect submarines. Large surface ships are also sitting ducks if they come anywhere near range of China's ASBM (Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles). This is leadership.

The related Belt and Road is also partly in response to the Anglo-American containment strategy. Since some of China's sea routes can be successfully blockaded, the Belt & Road provide a critical land route as the alternative. Belt and Road was the creation of Xi and his people. There are other advantages but you see the point. This is leadership.

Finally, look at the things that affect people's every day lives in China. They are about health, education, their home, pollution, safety. What do we see? We see innocuous programs like the Toilet Revolution, mass replacement of coal fired boilers, massive expansion of greenhouse vegetable growing, school and health systems dramatically improved, and pollution both air, water and soil dropping dramatically since 2011. Who is the one who keeps barking about a beautiful and green China? Xi Jinping, that's who. Who is pushing through budgets spending hundreds of billions on pollution controls every single year? Xi Jinping. This is leadership.

It's not only about economic growth rates. it's also about the people. That man is responsible and he obviously cares about those he leads. This is a long rant but I just need wanted to say it. This guy is the best thing to happen to China since Deng Xiaoping.
 

krautmeister

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The Hu-Wen period has been the decade China grew the fastest economically and burst onto the world stage as an emerging global power. Shortly before their term started, you had Foreign Affairs publish the article "
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" (1999). In the midst of their term, the hot topic among the elites and leadership was China's "Peaceful Rise" (later changed to Peaceful Development to avoid alerting the international community). In 2006, CCTV aired the well-known 12-series documentary "The Rise of Great Powers" ("
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"). By the end of their term, the US had already started to implement their "Pivot to Asia" strategy (2011), after failing to get a positive response from China on the idea of G-2.
...
...

In the end, the CCP leadership since Deng has a lot more continuity and stability than disruption, compared to Mao's era and relative to the western countries let alone developing countries. China has been growing by leaps and bounds, creating both new opportunities and challenges. Each generation of Chinese leadership has had to adapt to changes ("与时俱进"). In the last forty plus years, China has been blessed with successive four generations of very capable and competent leadership. In the same periods, the caliber of the western leaders ...
I have no disagreements with everything you said. It is true but at the same time, not true depending on the end goal. The current semiconductor sanctions are only 1 area of expertise that China is now fighting a proxy war over. The way I see this is that China is in a war for survival and semiconductor equipment and manufacturing is just the latest battlefield. The war is against the Anglo-American alliance that has historically and currently still are a power hungry control freak obsessed culture with large doses of racial supremacy mixed in. China was so backward in the past that to reach the point where they could effectively defend themselves would have taken many decades. Then that point in time where they could effectively defend themselves became a few decades, then a decade, then years....and here we are now. For every non-optimal mediocre leader who isn't leading China in a clearly positive and fair, intelligent way, is a further delay before the day China can be free of threats and domination.
 

Sincho

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I am extremely disturbed by this report that I have linked above. It's as though Huawei is prepared to give away the family heirloom. Why is Huawei even contemplating this step? Is it because EUV lithography is so hard that Huawei has given up hope that China will ever be able to achieve it? That Huawei wants to reach an agreement with Washington so that it can resume fabbing 5nm chips and below with TSMC? But Washington has shown time and again that it is prepared to ditch any agreement reached if it feels it is disadvantaged. What is to prevent the next admintration after Biden from doing so? Then Huawei will be left high and dry again and this time minus the family treasures. China should study this proposal of Huawei thorougly and put a stop to it. It us a step akin to treason.
 

voyager1

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I am extremely disturbed by this report that I have linked above. It's as though Huawei is prepared to give away the family heirloom. Why is Huawei even contemplating this step? Is it because EUV lithography is so hard that Huawei has given up hope that China will ever be able to achieve it? That Huawei wants to reach an agreement with Washington so that it can resume fabbing 5nm chips and below with TSMC? But Washington has shown time and again that it is prepared to ditch any agreement reached if it feels it is disadvantaged. What is to prevent the next admintration after Biden from doing so? Then Huawei will be left high and dry again and this time minus the family treasures. China should study this proposal of Huawei thorougly and put a stop to it. It us a step akin to treason.

From the article:
in an article titled Huawei to Joe Biden: Please Talk to us!, Vincent Peng, a senior vice president at Huawei, mentioned the 5G deal again
Hahaha the situation is beyond tragic. China is infested by traitors and white worship
Look at this pathetic title from Huawei hahaha

I understand now why Xi put "National Security" at the very top for the new 5yr plan. With so many traitors and idiots China will lose its lead in 1 of the few technologies it is leading the US

Pathetic joke
 

horse

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I am extremely disturbed by this report that I have linked above. It's as though Huawei is prepared to give away the family heirloom. Why is Huawei even contemplating this step? Is it because EUV lithography is so hard that Huawei has given up hope that China will ever be able to achieve it? That Huawei wants to reach an agreement with Washington so that it can resume fabbing 5nm chips and below with TSMC? But Washington has shown time and again that it is prepared to ditch any agreement reached if it feels it is disadvantaged. What is to prevent the next admintration after Biden from doing so? Then Huawei will be left high and dry again and this time minus the family treasures. China should study this proposal of Huawei thorougly and put a stop to it. It us a step akin to treason.

Huawei is taunting the Americans. Actually, it is more like Global Times is taunting the Americans.

Yesterday, the Americans had this report.
thehill.com/policy/national-security/555714-3-gop-senators-come-out-against-biden-intelligence-nominee-over-work
Cannot work with Huawei, because Huawei is the devil!!!

Today, Global Times start taunting the Americans.

The Americans are not currently winning the 5G race, and those politicians are so oblivious to that.

They would rather play their political games and continue their witch hunt, instead of building base stations.

The Chinese may give an occasional rebuttal, such as this from Global Times, but that is a waste of time. Even doing it occasionally is still a waste of time.

Global Times is just saying Huawei gave you a chance to catch up with their offer, which received no reply, now China is going kick your 5G ass.

That is the taunt.

:p
 

daifo

Major
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I am extremely disturbed by this report that I have linked above. It's as though Huawei is prepared to give away the family heirloom. Why is Huawei even contemplating this step? Is it because EUV lithography is so hard that Huawei has given up hope that China will ever be able to achieve it? That Huawei wants to reach an agreement with Washington so that it can resume fabbing 5nm chips and below with TSMC? But Washington has shown time and again that it is prepared to ditch any agreement reached if it feels it is disadvantaged. What is to prevent the next admintration after Biden from doing so? Then Huawei will be left high and dry again and this time minus the family treasures. China should study this proposal of Huawei thorougly and put a stop to it. It us a step akin to treason.

Its actually not much different than ARM selling license to its technology. If a US company license Huawei patents for 5g , it would even help standardize it more. US firms usually can not compete on cost in most deals anyways, so huawei would still win the deals where the countries are not in the 5 eye sphere of influence.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Huawei is taunting the Americans. Actually, it is more like Global Times is taunting the Americans.

Yesterday, the Americans had this report.
thehill.com/policy/national-security/555714-3-gop-senators-come-out-against-biden-intelligence-nominee-over-work
Cannot work with Huawei, because Huawei is the devil!!!

Today, Global Times start taunting the Americans.

The Americans are not currently winning the 5G race, and those politicians are so oblivious to that.

They would rather play their political games and continue their witch hunt, instead of building base stations.

The Chinese may give an occasional rebuttal, such as this from Global Times, but that is a waste of time. Even doing it occasionally is still a waste of time.

Global Times is just saying Huawei gave you a chance to catch up with their offer, which received no reply, now China is going kick your 5G ass.

That is the taunt.

:p
@horse Bro a subtle warning...lol, the Americans is so pigheaded to know what it meant and they have the nerve to call us sleazy. Such condescending attitude is why they're losing this tech and trade war.
 

horse

Colonel
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@horse Bro a subtle warning...lol, the Americans is so pigheaded to know what it meant and they have the nerve to call us sleazy. Such condescending attitude is why they're losing this tech and trade war.

Yup, you know what we are talking about brother, in my world, we call that confidence. Same in your world.

Without confidence, we are deader than a door nail.

:D
 
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