Chinese semiconductor industry

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gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
I only agree about Jiang. He did do a very good job. But Hu? Hu had the positive momentum created by the Jiang-Zhu government. China was basically on auto-pilot at that time with multiple positive converging trends pushing China ever higher, farther, richer, faster. Hu didn't actually initiate anything or sustain anything lasting that he could claim he actually accomplished. What I remember of his time is rampant corruption that became worse during his time and almost every single accomplishment was the result of decisions made not by his direct decisions but by the tens of thousands of other CPC officials in positions of power. That is what I mean. China was doing a bang up job at that time, but I am focused on HIM, what did HE do? To me, he did practically nothing other than being a good bureaucrat who didn't rock the boat. By contrast, look what Xi has done. It's not just about the corruption. The guy improved living standards dramatically, he raised the poor with multiple changes to minimum wages, went on an actual F**king war on poverty, not just intermittent campaigns. He dramatically ramped up R&D spend, drove the higher education system expansion into hyperdrive to the extent that CHina now has 54.4% of its school age population enrolled in tertiary education, with that number closing in on 75% within 10 years. Given the ratio of STEM students in China universities, that in the next 25-30 years, we are going to see China having something like twice the STEM researchers of the entire OECD combined. Yes, double the number of engineers or higher level researchers within China than the entire developed world combined. That is how sick it is going to be. I didn't mention anything about what is going on with the environmental progress but it is also stupendous, but this message is already getting too long.
You say China was on autopilot under Hu, but actually the same could be said about Xi. There were all the same positive trends when Xi came into power. It's true Hu didn't do much but he didn't need to do much, due to aforementioned positive trends.

Living standards? When Hu came into power in 2002, the average yearly wage was 12,400 yuan (
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). By his last year in office (2012) it was 47,590 yuan. That amounts to a compound annual growth rate of 14.4%. During this time China overtook a number of Southeast Asian countries in average wage (
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). In comparison, from 2012 to 2019, the compound growth rate is only 10.1%. The defense of Xi here is that it's easier to grow from a lower base. But by no means can you say Xi actually did better than Hu in raising living standards.

Minimum wage? As you can see, during the Hu years, average minimum wages were rising extremely quickly from 2007-2013 (
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).

R&D spend? Again, as you can see China's R&D spend really took off under Hu and didn't accelerate at all under Xi (
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).

Tertiary education? The takeoff occured under Hu from 1 million per year to 6 million per year (
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).

All of these positive trends you attribute to Xi were actually already taking off under Hu. Now what did Xi actually do? Besides purging his political opponents, his main accomplishments are destroying China's relations with the rest of the world, presiding over the beginning of China's demographic collapse, committing a genocide, and joining the American war against China's tech companies. I just hope he doesn't start WW3 before he steps down.
 

Hadoren

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hu Jintao did a great job.

20022012
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31.9%6.5%
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$0.3 trillion$2.2 trillion

When Hu took power in 2002, China was the world's 8th largest exporter. When he left power, China was the world's 2nd largest exporter.


Hu concentrated on poverty reduction and exports rather than semiconductors, and it was the right decision. Reducing poverty from 410 million to 88 million is more important than semiconductors.
 

Hadoren

Junior Member
Registered Member
The video also shows the export growth rate per year.

LeaderYearGrowth Rate (%)
Deng198730
198832
1989-8
Jiang199019
199113
199220
199311
199441
199526
199617
199721
19981
19995
200027
20017
Hu200222
200335
200436
200527
200628
200727
200819
2009-16
201031
201121
20128
Xi20138
20145
2015-4
2016-7
201710
201810
20190
20204
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
You say China was on autopilot under Hu, but actually the same could be said about Xi. There were all the same positive trends when Xi came into power. It's true Hu didn't do much but he didn't need to do much, due to aforementioned positive trends.
I said HU didn't do much besides be a bureaucrat and that's exactly what he is famous for, doing nothing. Everything you mentioned had the groundwork laid by previous leaders and especially the Jiang-Zhu term.


Living standards? When Hu came into power in 2002, the average yearly wage was 12,400 yuan (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
). By his last year in office (2012) it was 47,590 yuan. That amounts to a compound annual growth rate of 14.4%. During this time China overtook a number of Southeast Asian countries in average wage (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
). In comparison, from 2012 to 2019, the compound growth rate is only 10.1%. The defense of Xi here is that it's easier to grow from a lower base. But by no means can you say Xi actually did better than Hu in raising living standards.

Minimum wage? As you can see, during the Hu years, average minimum wages were rising extremely quickly from 2007-2013 (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
).
Why not attribute China's rise up to the point in 2012 to only HU because he was there? I didn't says HU was destroying the country. I said he was a bad leader because he was simply not a leader and he did nothing other than sit and sign things that were already in motion or maintained what was already planned. He had the luck of becoming the leader just as China was coming out of the tough years of the late 1990s when China's SOEs were being dismantled with tens of millions unemployed being let into the workforce. That was Zhu Rongji who took care of that problem. Then China was admitted to the WTO, also something that Jiang-Zhu did. HU came in to take the credit just because he was there. He didn't do squat, he was just there. The next 10 years after China's WTO accession was a golden time for China because it took advantage of its labor costs and unbeatable supply chains they created that were again conceived, planned and executed by those before HU in preparation for WTO accension.


R&D spend? Again, as you can see China's R&D spend really took off under Hu and didn't accelerate at all under Xi (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
).

Tertiary education? The takeoff occured under Hu from 1 million per year to 6 million per year (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
).

All of these positive trends you attribute to Xi were actually already taking off under Hu. Now what did Xi actually do? Besides purging his political opponents, his main accomplishments are destroying
Again, HU wasn't responsible for any of this. The education expansion was conceived and started by Jiang in the late 1990s from 1997 onwards. It was planned, it wasn't an accident. This expansion is to continue for the next 30 years. It's even expanding now and will continue to do so for probably another 15 years. HU was there at the right time. Concerning the place, anybody who becomes the leader of China is always in the right place.


China's relations with the rest of the world, presiding over the beginning of China's demographic collapse, committing a genocide, and joining the American war against China's tech companies. I just hope he doesn't start WW3 before he steps down.
That would have happened no matter what because the 1 child policy was going on for over 3 decades already. Plus the 1 child restriction was lifted 6 years ago in 2015 which was only 3 years into Xi's leadership. Now you're blaming China for Anglo-American control freaks who spread hate propaganda like there's truth to their claims of 1, 2, 3, maybe 10 million tortured, raped Uighurs. I'm not sure if you are kidding or being serious.
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
The video also shows the export growth rate per year.

LeaderYearGrowth Rate (%)
Deng198730
198832
1989-8
Jiang199019
199113
199220
199311
199441
199526
199617
199721
19981
19995
200027
20017
Hu200222
200335
200436
200527
200628
200727
200819
2009-16
201031
201121
20128
Xi20138
20145
2015-4
2016-7
201710
201810
20190
20204
We're going to just disagree. China trade can only grow so much before it stalls. By 2010, it was already in the trillions of USD$ dollars and there are only so many billions of Human Beings to sell things to before they run out of money to buy more things. Besides, I would never give HU the credit because he did nothing to deserve recognition for what were the work of his predecessors.
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hu Jintao did a great job.

20022012
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
31.9%6.5%
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
$0.3 trillion$2.2 trillion

When Hu took power in 2002, China was the world's 8th largest exporter. When he left power, China was the world's 2nd largest exporter.


Hu concentrated on poverty reduction and exports rather than semiconductors, and it was the right decision. Reducing poverty from 410 million to 88 million is more important than semiconductors.
Notice how the rapid trade increased dramatically from 2002 onwards? That's not a coincidence. China joined the WTO at the end of 2001. Ascension to the WTO was orchestrated by Zhu Rongji. The rapid poverty reduction was related to this because this made industry rapidly flow into the coastal provinces and accelerated the poverty reduction. There were no new programs or initiatives that HU did. All he did was continue what was already started by others. HU getting accolades for things he didn't do just bother me.
 

Hadoren

Junior Member
Registered Member
We're going to just disagree. China trade can only grow so much before it stalls. By 2010, it was already in the trillions of USD$ dollars and there are only so many billions of Human Beings to sell things to before they run out of money to buy more things. Besides, I would never give HU the credit because he did nothing to deserve recognition for what were the work of his predecessors.
I never criticized Xi, and I am not criticizing him here. You are right that growth rates have natural limits.

However, the export growth rates during Hu's term are the highest and most consistent of this entire 33 year period. (In fact, Hu's export boom might have been the biggest in all of Chinese history).

Surely he deserves some credit?
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Now what did Xi actually do?
Guide China through the final phase of overtaking the US, transitioning from a nation that hid its power to one that can no longer hide it.
Besides purging his political opponents,
You mean corruption clean up.
his main accomplishments are destroying China's relations with the rest of the world,
You mean pushing back against hostile American pawns.
presiding over the beginning of China's demographic collapse,
By changing the One Child Policy to the Two Child Policy? Oh, right, you blame him for not making it three, which if he did, then you'd blame him for not making it four LOL
committing a genocide,
Only in America's and its lackey's reams
and joining the American war against China's tech companies.
You mean ensuring that Chinese tech companies have every chance for robust growth and resource acquisition without overstepping the boundaries of national interest.
I just hope he doesn't start WW3 before he steps down.
If he does, China will win. If he doesn't, the same people who made up the Chinese bioweapon and Xinjiang genocide stories will imagine that he did, and it was up to the kind Western leaders to avoid it.
 
Last edited:

weig2000

Captain
I only agree about Jiang. He did do a very good job. But Hu? Hu had the positive momentum created by the Jiang-Zhu government. China was basically on auto-pilot at that time with multiple positive converging trends pushing China ever higher, farther, richer, faster. Hu didn't actually initiate anything or sustain anything lasting that he could claim he actually accomplished. What I remember of his time is rampant corruption that became worse during his time and almost every single accomplishment was the result of decisions made not by his direct decisions but by the tens of thousands of other CPC officials in positions of power. That is what I mean. China was doing a bang up job at that time, but I am focused on HIM, what did HE do? To me, he did practically nothing other than being a good bureaucrat who didn't rock the boat. By contrast, look what Xi has done. It's not just about the corruption. The guy improved living standards dramatically, he raised the poor with multiple changes to minimum wages, went on an actual F**king war on poverty, not just intermittent campaigns. He dramatically ramped up R&D spend, drove the higher education system expansion into hyperdrive to the extent that CHina now has 54.4% of its school age population enrolled in tertiary education, with that number closing in on 75% within 10 years. Given the ratio of STEM students in China universities, that in the next 25-30 years, we are going to see China having something like twice the STEM researchers of the entire OECD combined. Yes, double the number of engineers or higher level researchers within China than the entire developed world combined. That is how sick it is going to be. I didn't mention anything about what is going on with the environmental progress but it is also stupendous, but this message is already getting too long.

I usually don't want to comment much about China's contemporary internal politics at SDF, which can be quite a big subject and very controversial. It's also off topic in this thread. But still, I felt the urge to defend Hu and the performance of his administration.

The Hu-Wen period has been the decade China grew the fastest economically and burst onto the world stage as an emerging global power. Shortly before their term started, you had Foreign Affairs publish the article "
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" (1999). In the midst of their term, the hot topic among the elites and leadership was China's "Peaceful Rise" (later changed to Peaceful Development to avoid alerting the international community). In 2006, CCTV aired the well-known 12-series documentary "The Rise of Great Powers" ("
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"). By the end of their term, the US had already started to implement their "Pivot to Asia" strategy (2011), after failing to get a positive response from China on the idea of G-2.

Hu-Wen administration also adopted many far reaching domestic policies, including abolishing the thousands-year old agricultural tax. This was also the decade when China's infrastructure boom took off and had started to make strong impressions around the world. Many of the large and critical defense R&D programs were actually started during Hu-Wen administration, including J-20, 052D, etc.

In terms of their governing style, they tried to project the more humane side of the government and leadership - think about "Grandpa Wen" and "Harmonious Society" - which was largely to correct many of the excesses and shortfalls of Jiang-Zhu administration. This was actually quite important to the mood of the country at the time. Also subtle but critical was that Hu-Wen's relatively laissez-faire governing ("无为而治") had foster an environment that was conducive to the growth of private industry and entrepreneurship. This had its downside clearly, including wide-spread corruption. In many ways, Hu-Wen period was a contrast to the Xi period, which isn't always favorable to Xi. But Xi had to correct some of the excesses and missteps of the previous administration, and the extreme pressure from and the severe competition with the US as well as the pandemic all serve to reinforce a strong leader and distract and release many of the internal stress and tension.

In the end, the CCP leadership since Deng has a lot more continuity and stability than disruption, compared to Mao's era and relative to the western countries let alone developing countries. China has been growing by leaps and bounds, creating both new opportunities and challenges. Each generation of Chinese leadership has had to adapt to changes ("与时俱进"). In the last forty plus years, China has been blessed with successive four generations of very capable and competent leadership. In the same periods, the caliber of the western leaders ...
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
@krautmeister bro in defense of Hu Jin Tao he doesn't hold the reins of power within the CPC at that time, the one to blame is Jiang Zemin (hold the general secretariat and the CMC chairmanship even after his term is over), the archetype of a bureaucratic buffoon comparable to Yeltsin (such character is prevalent during that ERA). China is lucky that the power structure of the CPC created by Deng is able to prevent such personality to lord over the party. By Putting Zhu Rongji (the unsung hero) there to assist and reform the economy.


Thats true that Hu didn't get it straightaway, but he is considered to have been the paramount leader of China from 2004 to 2012
 
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