Ladakh Flash Point

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Gonna take a while to rebuild that.

Allegedly rebuilt in 5 days. probably a make-shift bridge.

A crucial bridge on the Munsyari-Milam road near the India-China border in Uttarakhand that collapsed on June 22 when an earthmover was being taken across it has been rebuilt by the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) within a record time of five days. Traffic was restored on the stretch on Saturday. A BRO official who did not wish to be named, told that the bridge reconstruction was taken up on priority since it is a "strategic important link." "Generally, it takes around a month to build a bridge like this but we were able to complete the reconstruction of this bridge in a record time."
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
@EtherealSmoke @AndrewS

Well, I don't think "The World" will stand with China on anything. Even if China literally saved the world by doing some " Armageddon " level stunt , the world will play blind because they dislike "Communists" so much.


China has to stop seeking acknowledgement from the world. Why should China appease "the World" ?
The countries of the "world" that care a lot about what China does are the countries of the "West". I genuinely don't think Argentina, Bolivia, Liberia, Tajikistan etc cares about what China does. The countries that do care ( West and Co) love to hate China.

I think you're misreading the situation.

Suppose there was a mass uprising in Kashmir. Plausible given:

1. India lost any remaining willing allegiance from Kashmir, when the BJP stripped away Kashmir's self-government after revoking Article 370 last year.
2. The deep hostility of Muslim-majority Kashmir to their Hindu overlords from India.
3. The decades-old insurgency against the (evil) occupying Indian Army. There are around 700,000 Indian soldiers currently occupying Kashmir.

If the average Kashmiri hears that India is fighting a war against both Pakistan and China, what will be the reaction?

Many Kashmiris will think there will never be a better time for a mass uprising.
They've already heard that the Indian Army has lost to the Chinese Army in the past weeks.

Plus India will be alone in fighting Pakistan and China, whilst it also has to suppress a Kashmiri uprising.

1. The 2 billion people in the Muslim world will applaud the actions of Pakistan and China, in liberating Kashmir.
2. The West (USA/Europe/etc) will not actively support China, but nor will they support India. Many will be sympathetic to the oppressed people of Kashmir.
3. The rest of world will sit out the conflict, as they prize relations with China far more than with India. Again, many will be sympathetic to the oppressed people of Kashmir.

So on balance, it is not an exaggeration to say the "World" will support China over India.

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And it's not about China seeking approval from the world.

China doesn't really want a war and the risks it entails, but it knows that if there is a conflict in Kashmir, China can win.
India will be alone as the bad guy, whilst the Chinese will be cast as the good guys.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
On Kashmir

Its pretty obvious that no one will stand with China even if China does some Messianic level act for the Kashmiri people. And I don't think China can "liberate" Kashmir either. The costs associated with it are too high.

What Next ?

Many people would be confused as to why India is still hesitant to finally board the American ship. It should be obvious right ? Why does India take so much time to make up its mind? Why don't India see how Korea and Japan and Germany and England all benefit from the Alliance with USA ?

The Answer is simple : India in fact has seen how Korea,Japan and England all "benefits". India doesn't think it is beneficial for India. India is an aspiring Superpower. How can such a country seek to be in alliance with USA when it is evident that USA doesn't like anyone challenging its position ?
India does not like being the "small brother" in a relationship. It wants to be "equal".( whatever that means. I don't know what it means so spare me the follow up ).


India is therefore very unlikely to base US forces in its territory. The territory that I think would be of great significance is the Nicobar Islands that lies close to Malacca Straits.
It has something to do with "Pride" . Maybe its just a false pride? Maybe not. It is however a fact that India and Indians , secretly think that they are above the west and deserve to lead the world. Don't be mislead by their rhetoric of " World Family" , " Global Peace", etc.


To be fair , Chinese leadership also promote similar weird sounding ideals like " Shared destiny", "Win-win" , "Better future" etc . I don't believe these are genuine. But I don't care as I root for China.
Maybe USA also has such keywords and phrases they use in rhetoric to hide their true intentions ? " Democracy" ," Freedom" ,"Security" ...
There must be a term in english to describe this ...?

The question becomes:

Can Kashmir be liberated if:

1. There is a mass uprising by Kashmiri people
2. Combined with intervention by the Chinese and Indian armies in Kashmir.

Given the mountainous terrain in Kashmir, there are only few roads into the area.
It should be feasible for the Chinese military to keep those roads blocked.

Then it doesn't matter how many soldiers the Indian Army has deployed, because they will be cut off from their supply lines.

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In the aftermath, what will Indians be thinking?

Remember that over the past 50 years, the Indian media have been fed the lie that an aggressive China started the 1962 war against an innocent India. There's a reason successive India governments still keep the Brooks-Henderson report secret.

But a Kashmir that celebrates its independence from the Indian Army, will force Indians to accept that India deserved to lose that war.
That will also force a reckoning with the Indian media anti-China narrative from the 1962 war.

That would result in a revolution in India-China relations, to China's advantage.
 

Nobonita Barua

Senior Member
Registered Member
The question becomes:

Can Kashmir be liberated if:

1. There is a mass uprising by Kashmiri people
2. Combined with intervention by the Chinese and Indian armies in Kashmir.

Given the mountainous terrain in Kashmir, there are only few roads into the area.
It should be feasible for the Chinese military to keep those roads blocked.

Then it doesn't matter how many soldiers the Indian Army has deployed, because they will be cut off from their supply lines.

---

In the aftermath, what will Indians be thinking?

Remember that over the past 50 years, the Indian media have been fed the lie that an aggressive China started the 1962 war against an innocent India. There's a reason successive India governments still keep the Brooks-Henderson report secret.

But a Kashmir that celebrates its independence from the Indian Army, will force Indians to accept that India deserved to lose that war.
That will also force a reckoning with the Indian media anti-China narrative from the 1962 war.

That would result in a revolution in India-China relations, to China's advantage.

Well while China can do it. I wouldn't recommend it.
China so far maintained it's non-military intervention policy, which it shouldn't sacrifice at any cost. Going forward this is going to be one of china's biggest tool to grow more influential because every nation around here despise other's boot in their coutry. While Kashmir needs to be separated, It shouldn't come at cost of China's long term image.

My suggestion would be, China should strengthen Pakistan to do it rather than them doing it. West/EU isn't going to be "sympathetic" to oppressed people. They are only sympathetic to their own interest. Rest of the world will either be neutral or supporting China-Pak morally. But for long term, it is absolute imperative that China doesn't use their growing military capability in any third party intervention. World will be watching this closely which is going to the cornerstone for other countries, specially smaller counties, to decide how they are going to view their relationship with China.
 

abc123

Junior Member
Registered Member
@EtherealSmoke @AndrewS

Well, I don't think "The World" will stand with China on anything. Even if China literally saved the world by doing some " Armageddon " level stunt , the world will play blind because they dislike "Communists" so much.





On Kashmir

Its pretty obvious that no one will stand with China even if China does some Messianic level act for the Kashmiri people. And I don't think China can "liberate" Kashmir either. The costs associated with it are too high.

This.
Western media and by extension, popular opinion are so much against China and pro-US, that whatever China does they will be against.
 

siegecrossbow

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Staff member
Super Moderator
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Anyone knows anything about this?

Breitbart news as original source. Enough said.

As I've stated several times before, if the Indians had any real evidence of Chinese casualties or captives it would've made rounds across the world by now. What's there to prevent them from leaking real names or photos of dead PLA if something as trivial as a Chinese CO getting punched made headlines in their news?
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Well while China can do it. I wouldn't recommend it.
China so far maintained it's non-military intervention policy, which it shouldn't sacrifice at any cost. Going forward this is going to be one of china's biggest tool to grow more influential because every nation around here despise other's boot in their coutry. While Kashmir needs to be separated, It shouldn't come at cost of China's long term image.

My suggestion would be, China should strengthen Pakistan to do it rather than them doing it. West/EU isn't going to be "sympathetic" to oppressed people. They are only sympathetic to their own interest. Rest of the world will either be neutral or supporting China-Pak morally. But for long term, it is absolute imperative that China doesn't use their growing military capability in any third party intervention. World will be watching this closely which is going to the cornerstone for other countries, specially smaller counties, to decide how they are going to view their relationship with China.

I agree that China shouldn't deliberately start a war with India

Plus you have to be realistic about China's non-military intervention policy.

When Vietnam thought it could have a military alliance with the USSR in the 1970s/1980s, the Chinese military were very aggressive in reminding Vietnam that they were just a pawn to be used by the USSR.

At the time, the US was more than happy at what was happening to Vietnam, and its "ally" the USSR.

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Yes, if China is seen as imposing/forcing Kashmiri independence with its military, then it would be bad for China's image.

But if the Kashmiri people decide to rise up against their Indian Army occupiers, China would be sympathetic.
Particularly if China-India were already in a war, and China provided a moderate level of support, like blocking the few narrow mountain roads that lead into Srinagar.

Ultimately, 9 million Kashmiri Muslims can completely overwhelm the Indian Army occupation forces in Kashmir if isolated from reinforcement by the Indian Army, and everyone knows this.

We've seen what mass protests can look like with Hong Kong or Black Lives Matter. And those were largely peaceful protests, from people working in the existing system. But with the BJP revoking Article 370 which guaranteed Kashmir's autonomy, there is no existing system to work with. BBC article below

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Also remember that the Indian government stripped the Kashmir police of their weapons before the revoking Article 370, because they feared a rebellion by the police. Voice of America article below on the Kashmir police.

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At a grassroots level, everyone would acknowledge that the Kashmiri people would be better off without their Indian overlords.
It would also demonstrate that there can be *hard costs* to going against Chinese interests.

At the moment, Kashmir is an impoverished police state where nothing works and is cut off from the world.
In the aftermath, Kashmir would be open to development, and presumably become part of CPEC.

That would connect Kashmir to China, Pakistan and the rest of the world.
It would also demonstrate the clear *benefits* of aligning with China.
 
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