Hong-Kong Protests

[getready]

I wish airsuperiority hasn't come out of whichever troll hole he came from to waste everyone's time with silly stuff like whoever last laugh nonsense.

 

[Jura The idiot]

Today at 8:14 AM

it's interesting to watch how Xinhua Yesterday at 9:28 PM and Glob. Times work around the elections results: they're none inside
No instruction from central govt concerning election: Lam

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now Glob. Times went with "the opposition capturing more than half of the 452 seats." inside
Time for HK pan-democrats to build consensus

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and there're no results inside
Commentary: Lion Rock Spirit needed for Hong Kong to stop violence, secure revival
Xinhua| 2019-11-26 02:39:36

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[supersnoop]

All you guys do a terrible job of ignoring trolls. That chattering puck-head is probably laughing it up.

These idiots really have no idea about the kind of fire they're playing with. Should the stars align and lightning strike twice and they get their wish, what comes after Xi won't be a more liberal government - it would be a far more hard-line government. It would be a revolutionary government with a revolutionary mandate, and it wouldn't think twice about drowning Hong Kong in blood. The horrors inflicted on them would pale their worst lies and most fevered fabrications about Tiananmen.

Jimmy Lie won't experience this firsthand, of course. He'd be safe and sound in whatever Western country he bought a citizenship to with his ill-gotten wealth. But the idiots chanting the slogans his think-tank came up with would definitely experience it.

Of course they are not going to get what they want. But Taiwan DDP already got what they want. As for the US, the best outcome is CCP send in the troops but the situation in HK still gives them enough ammunition to demonic China.

I think ZeEa5KPul makes an excellent point. Any weakness in the mainland government will likely bring hardliners to the front, rather than some imaginary liberal government.Those people stirring the pot do not care about reality. How many HK residents hold secondary citizenships? I don't have any hard numbers, but from my own experience, probably all of those 30-ish age anti-CCP types have US or Canadian citizenship. If the poop hits the fan, they will be on the first 767 out.

Don't worry about ammo to demonize China, troops not needed. US and their allies will say anything to meet their geo-political goals. The WMD lies were created to invade Iraq and how many people have been slaughtered now (though not necessarily by US)? The destruction of stability even gave rise to ISIS, and now they are taking credit for defeating them! It's like unleashing a virus and congratulating yourself for curing it. (This is not to say Sadaam was better, but that's too off topic)

What does DDP have? The presidency? The support of US? The fact that they exist? Again, I think you give them too much credit.

Not sure what you are trying to say here...

I won't speak for PanAsian, but the way I see it, the Western powers choose to spin this as a great victory for themselves, "for democracy", etc. There is a great assumption that the anti-establishment camp is this great force against CCP, but it can likely be sliced into many different factions. Besides the anti-China and anti-CCP types (and simple xenophobes), there are probably those that are just unhappy with Carrie Lam, others that want/ensure greater autonomy and don't care about mainland government, others with local concerns such as preservation of Cantonese.

Last time Donald Tsang bowed to them and did everything they asked him to do. The housing market ended up increasing 5 folds. The so called peaceful anti-establishment groups have already brainwashed two generations of youngsters. You mean that China should let them keep brainwashing another generation of youngsters. There is no peaceful anti-establishment but a group of cowards that manipulate colleges and high schools students to riot but send their own children away to keep them from participating in the riots...

...Unless the central government is prepared to send in the troops or meet every demands the rioters ask for, allowing a special investigation committee is probably the dumbest thing the central government can do.

I wouldn't count out an investigation committee as stupid. It can be a clever political maneuver, similar to South Africa Truth and Reconciliation commission. Rioters can be granted amnesty, but Police won't face charges either. That would be the condition of the investigation. I don't think Carrie Lam is skilled enough to pull it off, but that can work.

The central government holds all the cards. If the strongest anti-establishment groups want independence, they will need to fight, but they have no weapons, no training, probably not even majority support for something that radical. If they want direct elections of LegCo and CE, again, central government can dictate terms on that.

How truly important are the politics to them? China would have collapsed in 80's if politics are people's main concern. You can keep brainwashing the kids, something like refusing to learn Mandarin, and what will happen? The kid can't even get a job at a bank, a hotel, or even McDonald's. They can hate PRC and go work where as the HK economy declines? Taiwan? Sorry, no mandarin skills again, plus wages are bad there. Singapore? Sorry, your English skills and education are worse compared to expats (Anecdotally, I feel that the not-so-great-even-in-colonial-times English skills in HK have actually declined). Don't even dream of US or Canada.

 

[KYli]

Claims and facts do not have to match. The claims you purport to believe in and extrapolate from are anti-China spin and propaganda. Such as your next line...

That is if you can refute what I said with facts.

What are you trying to say?

Most oppositions like Donald Tsang. That is a fact. Many of his appointees are anti-establishment. That is a fact. Donald Tsang has a very bad relationship with the pro-establishment. That is a fact. Donald Tsang has tried to weaken the HKPF. That is a fact. Donald Tsang has tried to strengthen RTHK independent. That is a fact. No land reclamation, no new public housing, no new subsidized housing. That is a fact.

That's wonderful news for people who are already invested. Just another example among many around the world of the wealth, opportunity, and inequality gap created by globalization, financial manipulation, and governments catering to big money special interests. Nothing unique here.

When 27 per cent of your tax revenue is from land sales and a median income family needs to save 19.4 years without any expenditure to buy an average flat. "Nothing unique."

A chain of wild leaps to flimsy conclusions. More things that do not have to match, things that correlate but are not cause-and-effect, and things that are not mutually exclusive. That the HK government caters to big money interests, that swaths of the HK populace are conflicted and idolize, fear, and resent big money interests all at the same time, thereby ripe for manipulation and perversion, that anti-establishment/China/CCP sentiments predate Chinese rule by decades, that anti-establishment/China/CCP groups are more competent than pro-establishment/China/CCP groups at politics, propaganda, and mobilization, that the HK government leadership is incompetent, and more.

That has nothing to do with what I said. I said youngsters got brainwashed.

Just another example of incompetence where the devil is in the details, for example worst possible timing to do it and no good reason to not do it before the situation deteriorated.

Not going to defend Carrie Lam and her incompetence. But the extradition bill was long dead. And her resignation is not the 5 demands. Why is that?

Another wild leap to a flimsy conclusion. The devil, or the god, is in the details. Will the special investigation be of just the police, or the rioters as well, or rioter supporters as well? Who will be the investigators? What is the investigation's powers? And more.

The purpose of a special investigation is to placate the oppositions. The oppositions demand a special investigation to investigate and prosecute the HKPF. Let me remind you in 1977, a mass walkout by HK officers has forced the HK government to grant amnesty to the HKPF. Even if the HKPF wouldn't do it this time. What stand between the rioters and chaos are the HKPF. You expect the HKPF to actively fight the rioters when they just got backstab.

Another wild leap to an absurd conclusion, I will chalk it up to exasperation talk. This has nothing to do with the central government. Complete capitulation by one side or the other is neither possible nor probable. Decolonization with freedom and democracy is in place in HK and is a training of will as well as skill, the vast majority of HKers are still in training.

If not, why there are tens of thousands of PAPs at border across HK at Shenzhen.

 

[localizer]

I think the best strategy at this point is to continue to operate HK as usual and demonstrate that these protests are insignificant (which they are in reality).

The key is to show zero tolerance to violence and maintain >99% of all operations in the city.

The easiest way to do this is through quarantine. AKA how America does it by quarantining its colored folks on one side of the city or in prison and then denying them public transportation so they can't go to the good side of town.

 

[KYli]

What does DDP have? The presidency? The support of US? The fact that they exist? Again, I think you give them too much credit.

No, I am not. DPP will win another election. That is good enough for them. For DDP, winning another election which translates a little extra cash lining their pockets means everything. With just a little money and some moral support, they have accomplished their goal.

I won't speak for PanAsian, but the way I see it, the Western powers choose to spin this as a great victory for themselves, "for democracy", etc. There is a great assumption that the anti-establishment camp is this great force against CCP, but it can likely be sliced into many different factions. Besides the anti-China and anti-CCP types (and simple xenophobes), there are probably those that are just unhappy with Carrie Lam, others that want/ensure greater autonomy and don't care about mainland government, others with local concerns such as preservation of Cantonese.

I wouldn't count out an investigation committee as stupid. It can be a clever political maneuver, similar to South Africa Truth and Reconciliation commission. Rioters can be granted amnesty, but Police won't face charges either. That would be the condition of the investigation. I don't think Carrie Lam is skilled enough to pull it off, but that can work.

The central government holds all the cards. If the strongest anti-establishment groups want independence, they will need to fight, but they have no weapons, no training, probably not even majority support for something that radical. If they want direct elections of LegCo and CE, again, central government can dictate terms on that.

Granting amnesty equals to kicking the can down the road. As for a special investigation, "The purpose of a special investigation is to placate the oppositions. The oppositions demand a special investigation to investigate and prosecute the HKPF. Let me remind you in 1977, a mass walkout by HK officers has forced the HK government to grant amnesty to the HKPF. Even if the HKPF wouldn't do it this time. What stand between the rioters and chaos are the HKPF. You expect the HKPF to actively fight the rioters when they just got backstab."

The oppositions want a complete capitulation not a compromise. If they are willing to accept a compromise, then they would have accepted the 2014 proposal. Let us not forget that majority of the HK people are willing to accept the proposal.

 

[solarz]

I think the best strategy at this point is to continue to operate HK as usual and demonstrate that these protests are insignificant (which they are in reality).

The key is to show zero tolerance to violence and maintain >99% of all operations in the city.

The easiest way to do this is through quarantine. AKA how America does it by quarantining its colored folks on one side of the city or in prison and then denying them public transportation so they can't go to the good side of town.

That's not going to happen. We can speculate all we want about how to best handle the riots, but the fact is the HK government does not have the will and the HKPF does not have the manpower.

The riots will continue and it will only get worse. Sometime in the near future, I expect the HKPF will start to desert their posts, and that's when the real shit will hit the fan. Sucks to be HK, but so long as the PLA and the PAP remain where they are, it will only be HK's loss.

 

[Jura The idiot]

I've now reported the racist nonsense
#3255 localizer, 19 minutes ago

 

[Jura The idiot]

now noticed this comment presumably related to
Hong-Kong Protests
:
“Over the last few years, there have been many encouraging reforms in Hong Kong’s capital market. During this time of ongoing change, we continue to believe that the future of Hong Kong remains bright,” Zhang said. “We hope we can contribute, in our small way, and participate in the future of Hong Kong.”

source is
Alibaba shares surge in Hong Kong debut, world’s largest listing so far in 2019

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[PanAsian]

That is if you can refute what I said with facts.

You have not backed up the claims in your previous post with facts.

Most oppositions like Donald Tsang. That is a fact. Many of his appointees are anti-establishment. That is a fact. Donald Tsang has a very bad relationship with the pro-establishment. That is a fact. Donald Tsang has tried to weaken the HKPF. That is a fact. Donald Tsang has tried to strengthen RTHK independent. That is a fact. No land reclamation, no new public housing, no new subsidized housing. That is a fact.

When 27 per cent of your tax revenue is from land sales and a median income family needs to save 19.4 years without any expenditure to buy an average flat. "Nothing unique."

Your facts support what I said.

That has nothing to do with what I said. I said youngsters got brainwashed.

Which again supports what I said.

Not going to defend Carrie Lam and her incompetence. But the extradition bill was long dead. And her resignation is not the 5 demands. Why is that?

That has nothing to do with what I said.

The purpose of a special investigation is to placate the oppositions. The oppositions demand a special investigation to investigate and prosecute the HKPF. Let me remind you in 1977, a mass walkout by HK officers has forced the HK government to grant amnesty to the HKPF. Even if the HKPF wouldn't do it this time. What stand between the rioters and chaos are the HKPF. You expect the HKPF to actively fight the rioters when they just got backstab.

That purpose is your assumption, which is an anti-establishment/China/CCP assumption. The special investigation doesn't have to be done that way. That is not to say it can't be done that way. Nor does that mean there can't be a special investigation into the rioters and rioting, and the rioters' supporters and their actions. In fact the entire episode and all sides and their actions can be included in the scope of a special investigation.

If not, why there are tens of thousands of PAPs at border across HK at Shenzhen.

There is no need for the central government to deprive itself of options and it's good practice.