Hong-Kong Protests

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Anyone else notice the relative light opinion piece coverage of the election results in western MSM?

That is telling because there is no way they would not have been preparing opinion pieces and blanket coverage.

But other then report the result and very limited superficial analysis, which is largely just a rehash of their pre-election articles, there is surprisingly little new content.

I think that is telling, as I would bet good money most MSM expected the rioters to loose, and so their pre-prepared post-election reporting opinion pieces would have been largely focused on discrediting the election results as ‘fixed’ by Beijing. Which they obviously cannot use now, hence the dearth of opinion piece coverage, as they scrambled to write new opinion pieces.

You can see elements of that in the limited reporting there have been, as a piece on BBC radio 4 I listened to on my commute put a big emphasis on reporting how ordinary people flooded the public viewing galleries to watch the count being done as they were worried about the integrity of the count. Which is probably the only part of their pre-work the report could use. It doesn’t take much imagination to see how that would have been a launchpad to discredit the results had it gone the other way.

I don't think that they didn't prep opinion pieces for if the pro-dems to loose. I think the reality is the fact that the pro-dems won doesn't support their preconceived notion that the Hong Kong elections are fixed by Beijing and as a result, there just isn't as much for them to discuss and analyze.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
this guy talking free those criminal youngster and punish the police.


And he laughing at mainland media speechless and shocked that most Hongkong citizens repudiate beijing policy and current hongkong government.


Like I said before Hongkong needed to be treated as a Cancer.
 
Last edited:

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member

ha, this guy representing hongkonger thinking.
He talks about how Soviet was so powerful and the democracy movement kept its momentum in Poland and one day Soviet collapsed. and Democracy in Poland survived and blossomed.
He talked about Hongkong should follow this example, waiting for China to collapse.

Fantasy!
 

solarz

Brigadier
after the Great Leap Forward, of course the life expectancy and the economy increased

Not so.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


upload_2019-11-25_10-0-38.png

The Cultural Revolution was from 1966 to 1976. You can clearly see the trend of increase in life expectancy starting in 1960 and continuing to increase throughout the CR years.

In fact, the CR seems to have largely had no effect on China's average life expectancy.

The GDP chart tells a similar story:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


upload_2019-11-25_10-8-15.png
 

dratsabknihcllik

Junior Member
Registered Member
The result of this election shows that Beijing made the right call not to intervene. It shows that the people of HK have no wish to stand up to the rioters and end the violence.

Therefore, let them reap what they sow.
I hate to say this but I hope now you realize why I said that pla would not be sent to assist population of hk that was not patriotic. Chinese goal is to get as much possible capital shifted from HK to China proper.

I know many of you had harsh feeling against me but seems I had a clearer view and I hope many of you now have similar opinion.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I hate to say this but I hope now you realize why I said that pla would not be sent to assist population of hk that was not patriotic. Chinese goal is to get as much possible capital shifted from HK to China proper.

I know many of you had harsh feeling against me but seems I had a clearer view and I hope many of you now have similar opinion.

Indeed, the poison that infects Hong Kong runs far deeper than I wanted to believe. All this time hoping for the "silent majority" to take a stand against violence, and it turned out there was no silent majority. These people are perfectly happy living in an atmosphere of anarchy and white terror.

Well, it's their choice, and as long as Beijing wants to maintain the 1C2S, they have the right to that choice.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
To bear a dismissive attitude towards HK politics, or fail to tread lightly in its politically-active youth, does directly threaten the economy of China. Ask yourself, if HK were as irrelevant as you make it out to be, why is Beijing so eager to let the protests end on a good note?

I think the idea of "politically active youth" blossoming into some great democracy drive is just media drivel for Western countries to hold on to their hegemonic power. Look at Egypt, US sold out their ally in Mubarak, talked big about youth bringing in freedom via facebook and social media. The Muslim Brotherhood is elected, everyone freaks out (US and within Egypt itself), military comes back in, and nothing since.

The anti-establishment parties have declared that they support the rioters and would never cut ties with them. So whoever voted for the anti-establishment parties would be voting for the riots. Whoever argue otherwise is just pitiful that includes the pro-Beijing media. HK has spoken and 60% of the HK voters have declared they support the rioters and the riots.

Its a bloody nose to Carrie Lam and no mistake, but probably as much to do with her woeful handling of the situation and the other deeper seated problems in HK as anything else.
I cannot pretend to know the details of the Pan Democratic movement or how true the implied link between them all and the Protest movement really is.
Happy to be educated on this.
Still the time always comes when a protest movement achieves office and at that point the responsibility for sorting it out becomes theirs. It will be interesting to hear how they all respond if fresh disorder breaks out again.

I think SampanViking has made an important point, people were also unhappy with government's response to rioters. Many of these votes could be "protest votes", they don't necessarily support the protest movement, but were unhappy with the government's inaction. The last US election is a great example of this, non-mainstream candidates won a relatively large number of votes because people did not like Trump or Clinton.

Furthermore, the riot card can only ever be played once. Yes, the supporters of the anti-establishment are tacitly supporting the rioting. However, youth rioting tends to be a psychological game rather than political. Kids grow up. What happened to the hippies and Vietnam war protesters? They became CEOs of today and supporters of Middle East invasions. There will always be some kind of youth movement every decade in any given place (90's anti-globalization, 00's anti-Iraq war, 10's climate change, etc.)

To go further into what SampanViking suggests, what if the anti-establishment carries their momentum and manages to control LegCo? If violence continues, then they are exposed for what they are. If they aren't, then they are tasked with a whole new agenda.

Political reforms are their top priority. Let's say they all agree on this and Central government decides to give it to them. Then what? Likely, the factionization will begin. There will be some pro-independence parties cropping up, there will be others that simply wanted popularly elected LegCo and fade away, Pro-Beijing parties will always be there.

What will challenges would a more "independently" (not independence) minded executive do if they wanted to distance themselves from mainland? First on the agenda would be self-sufficiency, so water and power would need to be localized. As before, desalination plant is expensive and large. Power can be cheap if you build coal, but super polluting, and take away useful land, the terrain is not good for solar and wind, and obviously nuclear is impossible. Beyond that, pursuing self-sufficiency would mean less money for building housing, the biggest issue for most HK citizens. Carrie Lam's Lantau Tomorrow cost 600 billion HKD and was laughed at, what would desalination cost for all of HK, they already pay 20 million HKD per year to GD for water, so the cost for desalination would be far higher and provide no housing. How do you sell this to the population? Another issue, if you decide to throw HKPF under the bus, what happens when they don't try to control the next riot? This certainly has happened in other places before.

In the end, as it was planned, Beijing sits in the catbird seat. I think they held off on any intervention because their planning horizon is so much further ahead than what we are used to in Western countries. The result of this election, it actually shows 1C2S is working. If they allow reforms, they look benevolent. If they continue with 1C2S as it is, then they are still allowing HK autonomy. The only way they can look bad is if they actively intervened (politically or paramilitary) which they did not. The anti-China arguments will dry up over time.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Not so.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


View attachment 55531

The Cultural Revolution was from 1966 to 1976. You can clearly see the trend of increase in life expectancy starting in 1960 and continuing to increase throughout the CR years.

In fact, the CR seems to have largely had no effect on China's average life expectancy.

The GDP chart tells a similar story:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


View attachment 55532

I wouldn't trust stats from the CR period since there was almost no government during that time. Mao started the CR to get rid of the bureaucracy and he succeeded.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
I wouldn't trust stats from the CR period since there was almost no government during that time. Mao started the CR to get rid of the bureaucracy and he succeeded.
Your animosity towards the whole Cultural Revolution thingy isn't misplaced. But certainly, it takes no regard over things that are far too important, subjectively, like Chinese sovereignty and patriotism.
In a world where there is no clash of civilizations, cultures, race, religion and nationalities... without strategic geopolitical rivalry, Certainly, in such a world the CCP should NOT exist in whatever form it is existing in China right now.
How far back in history are you ready to go? Is it just 1945? How about 1900? What do you infer from the Boxer Revolution, which sadly, in HK, is portrayed not through the exact Prism as that of China? How far are you ready to look back?

I see you getting very charged whenever Cultural Revolution is displayed as not what it is popularly purported to be.
Would you be compelled to support and offer irrevocable acceptance of credibility if the graphs were... Negative gradient? Would you be doubtful of the numbers then?
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I wouldn't trust stats from the CR period since there was almost no government during that time. Mao started the CR to get rid of the bureaucracy and he succeeded.
That argument is just not acceptable. It is the same as Western analysts resorting to the "fake stats" accusation whenever the Chinese economy blows away their narrative. If you use that type of argument then anyone can say anything and all counter-evidence can be discarded. It is impossible to ever use evidence to substantiate a claim against someone who clings to that type of "logic."
 
Top