ARM cuts ties with Huawei, threatening future chip designs

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I wonder if it would be possible for the main Chinese phone makers to band together on core tech and hardware R and D, while still competing in product design and other areas of R and D. Likewise, it would be great if the phone makers and Tencent had banded together to make a new OS for mobile devices, rather than just Huawei.
 

Jono

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Registered Member
I wonder if it would be possible for the main Chinese phone makers to band together on core tech and hardware R and D, while still competing in product design and other areas of R and D. Likewise, it would be great if the phone makers and Tencent had banded together to make a new OS for mobile devices, rather than just Huawei.

I guess Huawei has already broken the ground and shown the way forward for the other Chinese companies.
Sort of like, "yes, we can do it."
the hitherto unimaginable, ie, breaking away from American technologies, has happened and shown to be feasible! I am sure other Chinese companies will follow the lead, nudged on gently or not so gently by the respective Government executive branches. :D
 

Tam

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but all the core component for oppo/xiaomi are still using US tech, so if trump want to ban it for whatever reason, its bankrupt for those company, they rely even more on US tech compare to Huawei.

Xiaomi and BBK may not have enough technological and financial resources to replace every chip from US sources. They do use Mediatek (Taiwan) and Spreadtrum when they can. Not their fault that Huawei doesn't let HiSilicon sell Kirin chips to them, although recently there is a Xiaomi dash cam that uses a HiSilicon chip.

Its also the other way around. Qualcomm needs Xiaomi, BBK and the rest of the Chinese phone makers. Barring them would kill Qualcomm.
 
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Tam

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Registered Member
I guess Huawei has already broken the ground and shown the way forward for the other Chinese companies.
Sort of like, "yes, we can do it."
the hitherto unimaginable, ie, breaking away from American technologies, has happened and shown to be feasible! I am sure other Chinese companies will follow the lead, nudged on gently or not so gently by the respective Government executive branches. :D

These other companies are much smaller and don't have the IP to do their own SoC, although Xiaomi did mention building one at one time. At this point its up to HiSilicon making chips for these other companies. Even if they did make one, the other question being that their own production volumes are sufficient enough to competitively price these chips down. Why would you also try to reinvent what Huawei's HiSilicon has already done?
 

AndrewS

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Back on topic, what would it take for ARM to be free of US technology sanctions?

The current v8 design has already been set, but the v9 design is upcoming.

TSMC apparently only have 15-20% US technology content which is comfortably under the 25% threshold.
So that would seem to be the target that ARM would want to reach asap.

I imagine every technology analyst in the world is asking this question, but I haven't seen anything publicly voiced yet.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Back on topic, what would it take for ARM to be free of US technology sanctions?

The current v8 design has already been set, but the v9 design is upcoming.

TSMC apparently only have 15-20% US technology content which is comfortably under the 25% threshold.
So that would seem to be the target that ARM would want to reach asap.

I imagine every technology analyst in the world is asking this question, but I haven't seen anything publicly voiced yet.

It already started most semiconductor company in Europe are taking stock of their dependence on US tech via cmp

Foreign tech companies designing out U.S. IP in order to revive sales to China and protect existing sales.

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4 June, 2019 - 23:03 By Tony Quested
Cambridge VC hatches IP masterplan to trump Trump
Dr Hermann Hauser of Amadeus Capital Partners

Cambridge entrepreneur and VC investor Dr Hermann Hauser has urged non-American technology businesses to stand firm against bullying from the White House in the bitter trade war between the US and China.

Angered by Arm (the company he co-founded) being forced to end its relationship with Chinese ICT giant Huawei, Dr Hauser says standing firm against US president Donald Trump is crucial to the future export success of non-American technology companies.

Dr Hauser, co-founder of Amadeus Capital Partners told me: “I consider this an extremely serious issue for Europe and any other non-American country as it is a question of sovereignty which we must not compromise on.

“At present we have no option given the legal situation. The solution is to design out American IP and stand on our own two feet unless we want to become vassals to the ESG (Extremely Stable Genius) as Trump describes himself.”

Dr Hauser believes that Arm and US companies like Google and Apple will suffer long-term if America continues its ban on Huawei technology. He said the ban would be “quite damaging” in the short term for Huawei but “incredibly damaging for Arm, Google and others – and the American technology industry” in the longer term.

Some of Arm’s product is US-centric – hence the company has had to obey the White House trade mandate. But Huwaei is already ramping up plans to design its own chips from a new R & D hothouse in Cambridge and has potential fab factories galore back home.

Dr Hauser believes that unless the US takes the heat out of the China trade war customers around the world will limit their exposure to products containing technology originating in the US – and that includes some Arm output.

He says: “Every single supplier in the world will start thinking of how to reduce the threat of their production being terminated by an American president.

“All the discussions I have with companies in Europe at the moment are about them going through their intellectual property portfolio and designing American intellectual property out, which is terribly sad and destructive.

“Every company in the world must now be thinking: ‘Do I want to be in a position where the American president can shut me down?’ When I talk to people in the industry, they are being very careful about not buying American products.”


Arm is staying out of the direct US-China firing line but Business Weekly understands the superchip architect is simply keeping its powder dry.

“We are watching the situation very closely, engaging in dialogue with policymakers and hoping for a swift resolution,” an Arm spokesperson said.
 
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It seems as if Trump's ban is already beginning to backfire. In the long run, he might have hurt Google and other US companies far more than Huawei. For instance, if Huawei can truly build a platform independent OS that is compatible with existing Android applications, then other phone makers around the world may explore ways to get out of expensive licensing agreements to Android, breaking Google's monopoly on the market.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
It seems as if Trump's ban is already beginning to backfire. In the long run, he might have hurt Google and other US companies far more than Huawei. For instance, if Huawei can truly build a platform independent OS that is compatible with existing Android applications, then other phone makers around the world may explore ways to get out of expensive licensing agreements to Android, breaking Google's monopoly on the market.

Trump is already using the Justice Department to investigate Apple, Google, Facebook and Amazon. Do you know what that can do? Affect the stock of all four. What happens when the stock of these four goes down? They affect all the tech stocks. When it affects the tech stocks, it will affect all the other stocks and bring the stock market down. These companies are lynch pins on the stock market rise and fall.

Its not hard creating an Android like OS to run Android apps. Much of this is open source. If you use Linux to build your OS, the terms for Linux is that you need to make your code open source and becomes part of the contribution. More importantly, it is to create an Android OS that isn't dominated by the Google ecosystem. Amazon has achieved that on its own. The Android in China has already achieved that. The EU has fined Google for its Android monopoly for 5.1 billion, and is looking to break Google's monopoly on Android. It is interesting that this EU initiative aligns with China's.
 
Trump is already using the Justice Department to investigate Apple, Google, Facebook and Amazon. Do you know what that can do? Affect the stock of all four. What happens when the stock of these four goes down? They affect all the tech stocks. When it affects the tech stocks, it will affect all the other stocks and bring the stock market down. These companies are lynch pins on the stock market rise and fall.

Its not hard creating an Android like OS to run Android apps. Much of this is open source. If you use Linux to build your OS, the terms for Linux is that you need to make your code open source and becomes part of the contribution. More importantly, it is to create an Android OS that isn't dominated by the Google ecosystem. Amazon has achieved that on its own. The Android in China has already achieved that. The EU has fined Google for its Android monopoly for 5.1 billion, and is looking to break Google's monopoly on Android. It is interesting that this EU initiative aligns with China's.

Sad and unfortunate that the US is going after its own tech companies. Trump had already gone after Facebook pretty hard, and Google is now currently in the headlines. This anti tech attitude runs across party lines too, the Democrats want to outright break apart the big US tech companies into dozens of smaller companies. It's as if the US politicians don't just not trust Chinese tech, they seem to have a distrust of and agenda against big tech in general, even American tech.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Huawei denied production stop on their smartphone another fake news

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Jun 3, 2019, 08:33pm

Zak Doffman

Huawei has come forward to flatly deny all the media reports that the company has cut down smartphone production, suspending a number of production lines at its major supplier.

The South China Morning Post was the first to report that "Foxconn, the Taiwanese electronics manufacturer that assembles handsets for many phone brands including Apple and Xiaomi, has stopped several production lines for Huawei phones in recent days as the Shenzhen company reduced orders for new phones," citing unnamed people familiar with the matter. The reports said that it was unclear whether the scale-back was temporary or permanent.

The initial report was widely covered, including by me, with the company not volunteering comments. But now, several days later, an official company spokesperson has told me it is all untrue: "Huawei refutes these claims, our global production levels are normal, with no notable adjustments in either direction."

The reported scaling back of Huawei production caused concern in the company given the breadth of media coverage. The implication was that it was related to the U.S. blacklist that has seen U.S. companies hardware and software suppliers withdraw support for future Huawei devices, and ARM suspend support for the chip designs that power Huawei smartphones. This has led to endless headlines around alternatives for the Android OS and app store, as well as in-house Huawei chips.

Huawei held onto its lead over Apple for smartphone sales in the first quarter of the year, but will likely struggle to maintain that lead for the rest of the year. SCMP's article quoted Zhao Ming, president of one of Huawei’s brands, acknowledging that the company objective of catching Samsung by the end of next year was at risk. "As the new situation has emerged," he reportedly said, "it is too early to say whether we are able to achieve the goal."

There has been plenty of recent speculation outside China as to the impact on new phone sales and prices as well as trade-in values since the U.S. blacklisting was announced. Most reports have suggested that sales are down, and trade-in prices have markedly reduced making upgrades more difficult for existing users. As such, reports that production was being scaled back seemed credible and unsurprising.

In the U.K., the company has also seen its flagship 5G devices pulled from the country's first network launches. And there will be more U.K. headlines later this week, with the anticipated showdown between President Trump and Prime Minister Theresa May over the decision to allow some Huawei equipment into U.K. 5G networks. U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo ramped up the pressure ahead of those talks, sending a public message to U.S. "allies and partners and friends... don’t do anything that would endanger our shared security interests or restrict our ability to share sensitive information."

There has been internal confusion at Huawei in recent weeks as the fallout from the U.S. blacklist has escalated, most notably over the timing of the alternative to the Android OS. And so it’s not impossible that there is some truth behind the original Foxconn story in the SCMP that will persist. But for now, the company’s denial is firm.

Find me on Twitter or Linkedin or email [email protected].
 
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