Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I didn't say it was about sales. In fact, I specifically differentiated between sales and active user share.

The stats I linked prove the number of active iPhone users isn't decreasing.

Statcounter does not differentiate unique users like some other web analytics company. If you have ten users of one platform vs. ten users of another platform, and users of Platform A use the browser more often to hit the same websites than the same number of users at Platform B, Platform A will get a larger market share. That's why Android and Windows have been tossing the market lead for market share, but Windows PCs will only sell 50 to 60 million devices each year while Android devices will do 250 million to 300 million devices each year. Users that don't use the web on their devices, like those that stick mainly to games, messaging or social media apps is not going to be registered, and if they are using those web browsers, it has to be one of those websites that is using Statcounter for their analytics. That excludes websites that don't use Statcounter --- which are plenty --- and websites of major companies that don't need Statcounter, like Google, Tencent, Facebook, YouTube, QQ, WhatsApp, WeChat, etc,.

Its already been established that iOS users are more active as web users, as they are bought with data contracts, while many Android devices are sold without contracts, and are using more limited prepaid data plans.

I prefer to use shipment trackers.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
Statcounter does not differentiate unique users like some other web analytics company. If you have ten users of one platform vs. ten users of another platform, and users of Platform A use the browser more often to hit the same websites than the same number of users at Platform B, Platform A will get a larger market share. That's why Android and Windows have been tossing the market lead for market share, but Windows PCs will only sell 50 to 60 million devices each year while Android devices will do 250 million to 300 million devices each year. Users that don't use the web on their devices, like those that stick mainly to games, messaging or social media apps is not going to be registered, and if they are using those web browsers, it has to be one of those websites that is using Statcounter for their analytics. That excludes websites that don't use Statcounter --- which are plenty --- and websites of major companies that don't need Statcounter, like Google, Tencent, Facebook, YouTube, QQ, WhatsApp, WeChat, etc,.

Its already been established that iOS users are more active as web users, as they are bought with data contracts, while many Android devices are sold without contracts, and are using more limited prepaid data plans.

I prefer to use shipment trackers.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Shipment trackers tell you nothing about installed base. They only reveal just that - quarterly shipments. There are also the Jiguang and Newzoo reports that corroborate what I've said, and their use of a greater variety of metrics than Statcounter still arrives at the same conclusion. Apple's own reports also support this, and they would have the most accurate userbase counts since they have direct access to Apple ID analytics.

Your claim about data contracts doesn't hold true for China, by the way. Chinese always prefer to buy their devices outright, regardless of platform or carrier.
 
Last edited:

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
They will have to buy a new phone eventually. Apple is very well-versed at manipulating conformity/peer pressure on consumers. That is why the iPhone X/XS generation came out with such a distinctive notched look, along with AirPods and the Apple Watch. They could've gone with the unobstructed Mi Mix design, the circular Moto 360/Huawei Watch, or less obnoxiously protruding earbuds - but they didn't in order to influence consumer trends and appeal to their superficiality and desire to conform. There is also the extremely juvenile, but very impactful green/blue bubble issue with iMessage. US and CANZUK consumers have proven to be stubbornly loyal to Apple time and time again. It also helps that these countries will lag in full 5G implementation, so a 2020 release deadline is less pressing. US consumers who bought the X/XS generation of iPhones won't be switching so soon either, as the performance benefits of early 5G will be marginal and iPhones have exceptional lifespans (measured as typically 3 years) compared to other manufacturer devices (1.5 years).



It's interesting that you bring up Microsoft, as they largely rely on Windows licensing fees, cloud apps/services for businesses, and Office software. Apple is also attempting to leverage its software ecosystem to be their main profit driver in the future. Their walled garden is more effective than any other, that's for sure.

Cosmetic change can only go sofar The world is littered with once icon Who still remember Nokia, Motorola who invented cell phone but does not change with time

I don't profess to be expert in smart phone But as I understand it the feature that most people want is not cosmetic but longer battery duration, faster charging time , better display, faster compiler and clearer camera in low lighting setting. better zoom
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

On those front Apple does not deliver period instead they goes on adding cute but not revolutionary feature

Apple will be around but they will relegated to niche market just like their mac

Huawei taking another step towards having its own OS

Huawei launches Ark Compiler – aims to improve Android system efficiency
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

By
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

-
Apr 11, 2019

At the product launch event in China,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
announced a new Ark Compiler aiming to improve Android system efficiency. Huawei’s consumer business CEO Yu Chengdong says the compiler will make Android App compilation more fluent. It will facilitate the interpretation and execution of the whole Android compilation process.
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
Cosmetic change can only go sofar The world is littered with once icon Who still remember Nokia, Motorola who invented cell phone but does not change with time

I don't profess to be expert in smart phone But as I understand it the feature that most people want is not cosmetic but longer battery duration, faster charging time , better display, faster compiler and clearer camera in low lighting setting. better zoom
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

On those front Apple does not deliver period instead they goes on adding cute but not revolutionary feature

Apple will be around but they will relegated to niche market just like their mac

Huawei taking another step towards having its own OS

Huawei launches Ark Compiler – aims to improve Android system efficiency
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

By
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

-
Apr 11, 2019

At the product launch event in China,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
announced a new Ark Compiler aiming to improve Android system efficiency. Huawei’s consumer business CEO Yu Chengdong says the compiler will make Android App compilation more fluent. It will facilitate the interpretation and execution of the whole Android compilation process.

I wouldn't exactly claim the tablet and wearables market are niche. Apple's market share still maintains #2 in these two categories at 20%, and its targeting of the luxury tier means its appeal is less elastic.
 
Last edited:

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wouldn't exactly claim the tablet and wearables market are niche. Apple's market share still maintains #2 in these two categories at 20%, and its targeting of the luxury tier means its appeal is less elastic.

iPads maintain #1 market share globally.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Xiaomi #1, Apple #2 in wearables. Note that Xiaomi has razor-thin profit margins.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Since wearables have an inherent perception as "geeky" with low sex-appeal as compared to mechanical watches, Apple has a monopoly on the luxury segment here and therefore the lion's share of profits in the global wearables market.
 
Last edited:

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Shipment trackers tell you nothing about installed base. They only reveal just that - quarterly shipments. There are also the Jiguang and Newzoo reports that corroborate what I've said, and their use of a greater variety of metrics than Statcounter still arrives at the same conclusion. Apple's own reports also support this, and they would have the most accurate userbase counts since they have direct access to Apple ID analytics.

Your claim about data contracts doesn't hold true for China, by the way. Chinese always prefer to buy their devices outright, regardless of platform or carrier.

Browser hits don't tell you about installed base either. It simply says one base is more active using a particular medium. What if the mobile users either only plays games, use WeChat and is entirely app driven? Statcounter only works when a particular browser hits a website that uses Statcounter for their analytics. In fact, if you want to know, Netmarketshare, which is another analytics company, do give unique users unlike Statcounter. A single very active web user can hit much more often than 20 occasional web users. Statcounter measures web traffic. That is not the same as unique users.

Shipment trackers do tell you who is shipping more phones and that is a straight out number, often released by companies or derived from distributors.

The problem of installed base is that you are seeing a lot of used phones and a used phone can also be one less new phone, and yes, a used iPhone is a competitor to a new iPhone. Corporations and stockholders need to see shipments because it directly affects the bottom line to justify the stock (over)valuation of that company.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Apple and Samsung are good barometers for measuring the world smartphone market, much like tracking Intel is a good barometer for the PC market. Their sales decline in 2018 indicates the beginning of a shrinking world wide smartphone market. However, Huawei, Oppo and Xiaomi has bucked that trend. And this is being consistently shown by four market analytic companies --- IDC, Gartner, Counterpoint and Canalys.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
Browser hits don't tell you about installed base either. It simply says one base is more active using a particular medium. What if the mobile users either only plays games, use WeChat and is entirely app driven? Statcounter only works when a particular browser hits a website that uses Statcounter for their analytics. In fact, if you want to know, Netmarketshare, which is another analytics company, do give unique users unlike Statcounter. A single very active web user can hit much more often than 20 occasional web users. Statcounter measures web traffic. That is not the same as unique users.

Not only Netmarketshare, but Jiguang and Netzero use analytics from in-app advertisements, micro-apps (WeChat), and game traffic to obtain a count of unique smartphone users. They all arrive at the same conclusion that iPhone's installed base is still increasing.

Shipment trackers do tell you who is shipping more phones and that is a straight out number, often released by companies or derived from distributors.

The problem of installed base is that you are seeing a lot of used phones and a used phone can also be one less new phone, and yes, a used iPhone is a competitor to a new iPhone. Corporations and stockholders need to see shipments because it directly affects the bottom line to justify the stock (over)valuation of that company.

How much it affects their bottom line is less than for other smartphone manufacturers for the reasons I've mentioned. Contrast Apple to Xiaomi, which barely makes a profit on shipping each device (sometimes even pricing their phones at a loss) in order to market Xiaomi services. Xiaomi phones now show ads in native apps and system UI since this model is barely sustainable, and Xiaomi often fails to turn a net profit at all.

Apple and Samsung are good barometers for measuring the world smartphone market, much like tracking Intel is a good barometer for the PC market. Their sales decline in 2018 indicates the beginning of a shrinking world wide smartphone market. However, Huawei, Oppo and Xiaomi has bucked that trend. And this is being consistently shown by four market analytic companies --- IDC, Gartner, Counterpoint and Canalys.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Shrinking new iPhone shipments and quarterly smartphone market share won't sink Apple. It will put a dent on their revenue, net profit, and stock valuation, sure (for the record, if you actually read any of my posts, you would see that I consistently acknowledged this, so there was little point in repeating this argument in the first place), but Apple will still hover around the trillion dollar mark in the near future, simply because their margins were already huge and they have yet more profit drivers in services, wearables, and computing. In wearables, Apple is experiencing strong market share growth as well as an expanding market. The fact that millions rushed to buy $150 AirPods towards the end of last year, Q1 2019 and will now spend even more on the 2nd generation demonstrates this well.
 
Last edited:

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


gsmarena_002.png


I guess I have to repeat this as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top