Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

Status
Not open for further replies.

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
The Chinese TD-SCDMA cellphone standard was dead on arrival. The technology it used was obsolete for the time period because it had to work around existing patents.
It also started at a time 3GPP technologies were well developed. UMTS (W-CDMA) was way ahead of it in implementation and technical characteristics. It was also an ITU standard.

As for the US CDMA standard it had some novel advantages to it when it came out. But you couldn't use both voice and data at the same time. That's the main reason why it died. That and the fact that it was locked with Qualcomm patents so there were basically so few equipment vendors the hardware was a ripoff.

The European market was also substantially larger than both the US and Chinese markets back then. A lot more people had cellphones. When Japan started using ITU W-CDMA and its related standards that was the death knell for US CDMA.
 
Last edited:
here's what DefenseOne has to say:
The US Can’t Out-China China on 5G. We Need a National Strategy.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

A recent report from the Pentagon's Defense Innovation Board should be a wakeup call about today's most important emerging technology.

As one of the vital technologies the will underpin the next phase of the information revolution, 5G network technology is a key battleground for determining which nations lead the way in the digital future. Last week, the Defense Innovation Board, a group of private sector leaders and scientists who advise the Department of Defense on technology issues,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that should serve as a wakeup call to both American policymakers and the public.

Just as 4G networks unlocked the power of the smartphone and other connected devices, 5G’s high speeds and low latency will create better conditions for the “Internet of Things,” communication with automated vehicles and systems, and data flows that will power artificial intelligence and machine learning. While the United States once had the advantages of 4G incumbency, it has been slow to develop 5G technology because of suboptimal radio spectrum allocation, debt-laden wireless companies, and a fragmented government policymaking process. Meanwhile, China and its national telecommunication champion Huawei have pushed forward to close the gap in 4G and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in the development of 5G.

The report’s sobering conclusion is simple and straightforward: “The country that owns 5G will own many of these innovations and set the standards for the rest of the world…that country is currently not likely to be the United States.”

Even if one does not believe the concerns of U.S. policymakers about the espionage and security risks of Chinese 5G equipment—and some of our
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
with 5G equipment from Huawei and other Chinese providers—there are broader consequences regarding Chinese technology leadership and its global impact. Earlier this month, six former senior U.S. military commanders
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
the risks posed by Chinese 5G technology in the areas of espionage, military operations, and human rights and civil liberties. As they note, even absent technological vulnerabilities in Chinese equipment, the basic legal structures in China and the ties between the Chinese government and its industries compel cooperation in matters of national security, internal control, and intelligence gathering.

While it does not explicitly say so, the DOD report operates on the assumption that Chinese behavior in this arena will remain unchanged. Therefore, the West must match and overcome this challenge, rather than seek to contain or accommodate it.

Over the past six months, we at the Center for the Study of the Presidency & Congress have convened stakeholders from the government and private sector to explore how the United States can better coordinate policies on advanced technology and work with allies to build a common approach. A key area of concern is the future of 5G technology.

While the administration had considered
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to counter Chinese advances, the answer is not to try to “out-China China.” Rather, it is time that the United States moved beyond its fragmented approach to 5G—and other advanced technologies—to better understand the impact of technological impact and develop a coherent set of strategies for these technologies.

Such an effort is needed at a time when the marriage of geopolitics and technology creates a “Geotech” confrontation where open societies and authoritarian regimes are competing to set technology standards. In the Executive Branch, this will require thorough, White House-level coordination of issues that cut across traditional silos related to national security, economic policy, and science and technology policy. For Congress, it will require coordination across committees of jurisdiction on armed services, foreign affairs, intelligence, commerce, and science. In government writ large, there must be a greater emphasis on drawing expertise from technology and science innovators to cross-pollinate an understanding of technological innovation with policymaking.

Beyond the Beltway, there must be a bridging of the gap between government and technology innovators to ensure that government, the national labs, universities, and the private sector push together for cutting-edge research and technology deployment. Finally, we must work with our allies to ensure that open societies lead the way in technological innovation and setting the standards of the future. These approaches draw on the openness and innovation—American strengths—while also ensuring that our technological future is better coordinated rather than over-regulated.

The challenge posed by Chinese technology leadership is clear. What we must consider now is not only how we mitigate this threat from abroad, but also how we strengthen ourselves to overcome it.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
The Chinese TD-SCDMA cellphone standard was dead on arrival. The technology it used was obsolete for the time period because it had to work around existing patents.
It was late than WCDMA for sure, but no where near dead on arrival. It had and maintained half of Chinese 3G market which eventually became the 2nd largest in the world after US. TD-SCDMA was the base of TDD LTE which was then the base of TDD 5G NR. The earliest 5G network out there today is TDD not FDD. Here TDD 5G NR is based on TD-SCDMA rather than WCDMA.

Note, both WCDMA and TD-SCDMA are based on Qualcomm's patent of CDMA, neither are batter than the other.
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Easy to diagnose. Hard to do. The US failed to lead 5G for the same reason Kodak failed and is a textbook case study in business schools. Their profitable legacy business cut the legs off their future business ventures. Despite getting more than enough money for R&D, the internal politics and vested interests held them back while their competitors took the lead. It’s the same reason why US is still so slow to transition to a cashless society while China has taken the lead on that. If credit cards dominated in China, it would have held them back too.

here's what DefenseOne has to say:
The US Can’t Out-China China on 5G. We Need a National Strategy.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
What an irony now apple want to use Huawei Balong 5000 Modem chipset in their product.Because Apple has trouble sourcing 5G modem chipset from other supplier. In effect it will invalidate the US claim that China is spying on US by using Huawei backdoor
Whether or not Apple and Huawei end up partners in the future, the fact remains that in a world where technology transcends national frontiers, the best method through which to put the best and most cost-effective technology into the hands of ordinary people is for innovators throughout the world to cooperate in the pursuit of win-win outcomes.

Anti-Huawei fear factor has just been exposed as a myth
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Adam Garrie - 10-Apr-2019

ac4302019f9d49bba14a6ddc6a8cee48.jpg


Editor's Note: Adam Garrie is the director of the UK-based global policy and analysis think tank Eurasia Future and co-host of talk show "The History Boys." The article reflects the author's opinion, and not necessarily the views of CGTN.

Reports have surfaced indicating that the U.S. tech giant Apple is looking to purchase Balong 5000 chipsets from
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. This comes after Apple has apparently struggled to develop satisfactory 5G technology of its own.


It is not uncommon for companies like Apple to purchase chips from other producers, but by approaching Huawei, Apple has inadvertently proved several important points.

First of all, while Donald Trump's administration contends that Huawei's 5G products are tools of "espionage" rather than consumer goods, America's top smartphone maker appears to view things differently.

Based on the current reports, Apple sees potential deals with Huawei as business as usual within the context of a highly competitive market in which both Apple and Huawei have clear and rational interests.


Besides, while it has been logically suggested that the U.S. government's anti-Huawei position has been one which invokes a security scare tactic in order to stifle free and fair business conditions, Apple is exploring the possibility that cooperating with Huawei over 5G innovation might make more business sense than trying to spend millions in order to try and outdo the Chinese company which is widely acknowledged as the global leader in 5G development.



A board with Huawei advertisement and an Apple store are seen in Shanghai, January 19, 2019. /VCG Photo

Here too, standard business practices are at play as many international car makers often purchase engines from ostensible competitors rather than waste money trying to outdo engines that can scarcely be improved upon.

Huawei representatives have refused to comment on the matter but this has only increased speculation regarding Apple's potential for cooperation with China's top 5G innovator. Although conventional wisdom would suggest that such a development might set Apple on the course for a showdown against the U.S. government, this is not necessarily the case when one takes a long view of the matter.

In the 1980s, during China's reform and opening-up, the country's then leader Deng Xiaoping realized that it was important for Chinese industry to learn from international best practices in order to develop a major domestic industrial base with Chinese characteristics that could evolve into a major innovator over the long term.

Today, China is rapidly transforming itself from a significant producer of industrial and technological goods into a key global innovator of such goods. As Chinese President Xi Jinping's drive to replace the concept of "Made in China" with "Created in China" is still in its early stages, the world will soon see ever more key innovations coming out of China.

Just as Chinese industry gained experience through cooperation with foreign partners after 1978, so too can non-Chinese companies like Apple now attain win-win results from partnering with companies like Huawei.

As Donald Trump himself stated that he wants U.S. companies to be at the forefront of both 5G and "6G," it actually makes perfect sense for Apple to strengthen the reputation of its own brand by working with a partner that has established itself at the forefront of the next big phase of mobile data development.

5b90f4ac587c4b8f9adac4ef95d206a0.jpg


An Apple retail location is open for business on Prince Street in the Soho section of New York City, November 27, 2018. /VCG photo

Whether or not Apple and Huawei end up partners in the future, the fact remains that in a world where technology transcends national frontiers, the best method through which to put the best and most cost-effective technology into the hands of ordinary people is for innovators throughout the world to cooperate in the pursuit of win-win outcomes.

Both Huawei and Apple are significant companies that will almost certainly continue to innovate well into the future. If such companies were to pool their capabilities through various cooperative endeavors, not only would this be a sound business decision but it would help to improve the lives of ordinary people who can benefit greatly from the immense potential inherent in 5G technology.
 
Last edited:

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
What an irony now apple want to use Huawei Balong 5000 Modem chipset in their product.Because Apple has trouble sourcing 5G modem chipset from other supplier. In effect it will invalidate the US claim that China is spying on US by using Huawei backdoor
Whether or not Apple and Huawei end up partners in the future, the fact remains that in a world where technology transcends national frontiers, the best method through which to put the best and most cost-effective technology into the hands of ordinary people is for innovators throughout the world to cooperate in the pursuit of win-win outcomes.

Anti-Huawei fear factor has just been exposed as a myth
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Adam Garrie - 10-Apr-2019

ac4302019f9d49bba14a6ddc6a8cee48.jpg


Editor's Note: Adam Garrie is the director of the UK-based global policy and analysis think tank Eurasia Future and co-host of talk show "The History Boys." The article reflects the author's opinion, and not necessarily the views of CGTN.

Reports have surfaced indicating that the U.S. tech giant Apple is looking to purchase Balong 5000 chipsets from
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. This comes after Apple has apparently struggled to develop satisfactory 5G technology of its own.


It is not uncommon for companies like Apple to purchase chips from other producers, but by approaching Huawei, Apple has inadvertently proved several important points.

First of all, while Donald Trump's administration contends that Huawei's 5G products are tools of "espionage" rather than consumer goods, America's top smartphone maker appears to view things differently.

Based on the current reports, Apple sees potential deals with Huawei as business as usual within the context of a highly competitive market in which both Apple and Huawei have clear and rational interests.


Besides, while it has been logically suggested that the U.S. government's anti-Huawei position has been one which invokes a security scare tactic in order to stifle free and fair business conditions, Apple is exploring the possibility that cooperating with Huawei over 5G innovation might make more business sense than trying to spend millions in order to try and outdo the Chinese company which is widely acknowledged as the global leader in 5G development.



A board with Huawei advertisement and an Apple store are seen in Shanghai, January 19, 2019. /VCG Photo

Here too, standard business practices are at play as many international car makers often purchase engines from ostensible competitors rather than waste money trying to outdo engines that can scarcely be improved upon.

Huawei representatives have refused to comment on the matter but this has only increased speculation regarding Apple's potential for cooperation with China's top 5G innovator. Although conventional wisdom would suggest that such a development might set Apple on the course for a showdown against the U.S. government, this is not necessarily the case when one takes a long view of the matter.

In the 1980s, during China's reform and opening-up, the country's then leader Deng Xiaoping realized that it was important for Chinese industry to learn from international best practices in order to develop a major domestic industrial base with Chinese characteristics that could evolve into a major innovator over the long term.

Today, China is rapidly transforming itself from a significant producer of industrial and technological goods into a key global innovator of such goods. As Chinese President Xi Jinping's drive to replace the concept of "Made in China" with "Created in China" is still in its early stages, the world will soon see ever more key innovations coming out of China.

Just as Chinese industry gained experience through cooperation with foreign partners after 1978, so too can non-Chinese companies like Apple now attain win-win results from partnering with companies like Huawei.

As Donald Trump himself stated that he wants U.S. companies to be at the forefront of both 5G and "6G," it actually makes perfect sense for Apple to strengthen the reputation of its own brand by working with a partner that has established itself at the forefront of the next big phase of mobile data development.

5b90f4ac587c4b8f9adac4ef95d206a0.jpg


An Apple retail location is open for business on Prince Street in the Soho section of New York City, November 27, 2018. /VCG photo

Whether or not Apple and Huawei end up partners in the future, the fact remains that in a world where technology transcends national frontiers, the best method through which to put the best and most cost-effective technology into the hands of ordinary people is for innovators throughout the world to cooperate in the pursuit of win-win outcomes.

Both Huawei and Apple are significant companies that will almost certainly continue to innovate well into the future. If such companies were to pool their capabilities through various cooperative endeavors, not only would this be a sound business decision but it would help to improve the lives of ordinary people who can benefit greatly from the immense potential inherent in 5G technology.

I have to question what reports this author is referencing when he claims that Apple may be interested in using Huawei's 5G modem. The only news that has surfaced so far originate in an Engadget article that explicitly states there is yet no word as to whether Apple has acknowledged/would respond to Huawei's offer.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
I have to question what reports this author is referencing when he claims that Apple may be interested in using Huawei's 5G modem. The only news that has surfaced so far originate in an Engadget article that explicitly states there is yet no word as to whether Apple has acknowledged/would respond to Huawei's offer.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It is logical deduction since Apple didn't have in house chipset for 5G modem Where are they going it to get it from Qualcomm Well they are not exactly in good term after litigation in the court. Intel? Their design in not ready yet. Samsung ? they fought over patent and Samsung lost big money Not exactly your friend Here it is

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

As I’ve noted in prior articles, the transition to 5G is particularly perilous for Apple.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
is using 5G modem and antenna components from Qualcomm, which appears to have a major lead over Intel in producing phone-sized 5G parts. But Apple picked a fight with Qualcomm over its modem patent licensing fees, and apparently decided to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in protest. Intel is now racing to get a viable 5G modem finished in time for 2020 smartphones, and Apple has been
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
— Samsung, which it has previously fought with over other patent issues, and low-to mid-range chipmaker
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

In the interim, Apple’s relationship with Qualcomm has continued to deteriorate, such that Apple refused to settle their pricing dispute before a highly publicized trial, and began
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in Qualcomm’s home base of San Diego. Qualcomm says that Apple has been l
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in order to make more competitive 4G modems, and their collective dirty laundry suggests that they won’t be working together again anytime soon
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is logical deduction since Apple didn't have in house chipset for 5G modem Where are they going it to get it from Qualcomm Well they are not exactly in good term after litigation in the court. Intel? Their design in not ready yet. Samsung ? they fought over patent and Samsung lost big money Not exactly your friend Here it is

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

As I’ve noted in prior articles, the transition to 5G is particularly perilous for Apple.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
is using 5G modem and antenna components from Qualcomm, which appears to have a major lead over Intel in producing phone-sized 5G parts. But Apple picked a fight with Qualcomm over its modem patent licensing fees, and apparently decided to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in protest. Intel is now racing to get a viable 5G modem finished in time for 2020 smartphones, and Apple has been
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
— Samsung, which it has previously fought with over other patent issues, and low-to mid-range chipmaker
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

In the interim, Apple’s relationship with Qualcomm has continued to deteriorate, such that Apple refused to settle their pricing dispute before a highly publicized trial, and began
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in Qualcomm’s home base of San Diego. Qualcomm says that Apple has been l
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in order to make more competitive 4G modems, and their collective dirty laundry suggests that they won’t be working together again anytime soon

So there is not even a hint of confirmation that Apple will rely on Huawei. It's still quite possible (and I would say most likely) that they will rush to release an unpolished, incomplete solution from Intel. The other likely possibility is Apple delaying the release of a 5G iPhone by a year or more.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
So there is not even a hint of confirmation that Apple will rely on Huawei. It's still quite possible (and I would say most likely) that they will rush to release an unpolished, incomplete solution from Intel. The other likely possibility is Apple delaying the release of a 5G iPhone by a year or more.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


If they do that they will concede the market for 5 G smart phone to Huawei and Samsung
1 year late in production of 5 G phone is eternity when the production cyce for smartphone is 6 months. Apple will become the next blackberry
Intel is not even sure if their modem will be in production in 2020 They have problem in getting the high yield of the chips. And not as fast as Qualcomm or Samsung modem

For Huawei it is a gooc coup they will confirm Huawei position as leading 5G supplier and technology that eeven Apple use their modem A good marketing windfall. NOt to mention it invalidate those spying accusation

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Huawei, Samsung (NASDAQOTH: SSNLF) and Qualcomm are currently the only three chipmakers that have released 5G modems. Qualcomm was Apple's longtime modem supplier, but escalating
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
over the past two years led to an ugly divorce. Apple stopped buying modems from Qualcomm and shifted all its orders to Intel (NASDAQ: INTC).

However, Intel's 4G modems weren't as fast as Qualcomm's and its 5G modems probably won't arrive until 2020. This means that the first 5G iPhones will arrive about a year after 5G Android devices hit the market. To make matters worse, Intel's ongoing
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
indicate that its 5G modem production could still hit additional delays next year.

Meanwhile, Samsung refused to sell its 5G modems to Apple, citing a short supply of its Exynos 5100 chips. The only other major modem maker, MediaTek, probably won't release its 5G chipset until 2020.

Apple is falling behind the 5G curve while its iPhone sales are tumbling. Its iPhone sales fell 15% annually last quarter due to longer upgrade cycles and tough competition in higher-growth markets like China.

TF International Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo expects iPhone shipments to fall between 5% to 10% in 2019, and the situation could worsen in 2020 if Intel fails to launch its 5G modem. Therefore, Huawei's offer likely sounds enticing to Apple.
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
If they do that they will concede the market for 5 G smart phone to Huawei and Samsung
1 year late in production of 5 G phone is eternity when the production cyce for smartphone is 6 months. Apple will become the next blackberry
Intel is not even sure if their modem will be in production in 2020 They have problem in getting the high yield of the chips. And not as fast as Qualcomm or Samsung modem

For Huawei it is a gooc coup they will confirm Huawei position as leading 5G supplier and technology that eeven Apple use their modem A good marketing windfall. NOt to mention it invalidate those spying accusation

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Huawei, Samsung (NASDAQOTH: SSNLF) and Qualcomm are currently the only three chipmakers that have released 5G modems. Qualcomm was Apple's longtime modem supplier, but escalating
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
over the past two years led to an ugly divorce. Apple stopped buying modems from Qualcomm and shifted all its orders to Intel (NASDAQ: INTC).

However, Intel's 4G modems weren't as fast as Qualcomm's and its 5G modems probably won't arrive until 2020. This means that the first 5G iPhones will arrive about a year after 5G Android devices hit the market. To make matters worse, Intel's ongoing
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
indicate that its 5G modem production could still hit additional delays next year.

Meanwhile, Samsung refused to sell its 5G modems to Apple, citing a short supply of its Exynos 5100 chips. The only other major modem maker, MediaTek, probably won't release its 5G chipset until 2020.

Apple is falling behind the 5G curve while its iPhone sales are tumbling. Its iPhone sales fell 15% annually last quarter due to longer upgrade cycles and tough competition in higher-growth markets like China.

TF International Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo expects iPhone shipments to fall between 5% to 10% in 2019, and the situation could worsen in 2020 if Intel fails to launch its 5G modem. Therefore, Huawei's offer likely sounds enticing to Apple.

The choice is effectively between brand suicide and reduced 5G market share. I'm pretty sure Apple will choose the latter. There would be a tremendous assault on Apple's reputation from all aspects of the American media and government. US Customs could even be ordered to confiscate shipments of iPhones, simply because of how rabid the US national security establishment would become.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top