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[latenlazy]

The carrier group wasn't expecting anything as it was a low-threat area. During wartime, with active radars pinging everywhere, the Song would not have gotten that close and would've either hid somewhere or engaged much further out. The USN CBG also did not have the same tools as the JMSDF in this incident. For one, they didn't have a P-3. And two, they didn't have a territorial dispute to motivate them to search harder. Do you actually believe a USN P-3 or P-8 crew would under-perform compared to a JMSDF crew under identical circumstances?

The issue at hand isn't whether the P-3 detected the submarine. If it did, it's nothing special. The issue is whether the ship detected the 093 and with what type of sonar. If it's active sonar, it depends on a bunch of other variables but the general theme is it isn't anything special either. Active sonar is very effective but rarely used in peacetime. If it's passive sonar, there is again a host of variables to consider but the general theme is the submarine needs to be quieter. Out of three possible detection methods, only one is concerning to the PLAN and even then it's not exactly news the 093 under-performs compared to a Virginia or Yasen.

We also don’t know the distance parameters of detection, and the way the topography near land features might factor into the acoustic environment the submarine was operating under. Where a submarine chooses to operate plays a large role in how easy it is to detect, and this episode didn’t exactly occur in open ocean.

 

[jobjed]

We also don’t know the distance parameters of detection, and the way the topography near land features might factor into the acoustic environment the submarine was operating under. Where a submarine chooses to operate plays a large role in how easy it is to detect, and this episode didn’t exactly occur in open ocean.

I don't even think the 093 was "operating" so much as the PLAN high command told them a 054A was going anyway so they might as well tag along as training.

 

[taxiya]

It shows that JMSDF are great at doing their job. They're doing this stuff as their primary role for over 50 years and are probably the best in the world in that aspect of naval warfare.

A better question would be why Japanese made it public. I think there two main reasons of this act:

1) it entered contiguous zone around Miyako Island
2) the current political climat in Japan. PM Abe pushes hard to increase defensive budget and arm the SDF for a real fight. The question to the public: would you like to have a Chinese submarine near your town? If you don't want that then we should put more money into SDF as they're capable of doing their job!

For sure Chinese side didn't want that to happen as it obviously doesn't put it's submarine force in a good light whatever the circumstances were. I think they were there to for intel like checking out the seabed within the Miyako Strait area. And we don't know how many of such 'live drills' are conducted every year because that's classified information.
It was underwater all the time underwater and surfaced in the East China Sea after being trsacked all the way by JS Onami. They didn't obey the protocol.
If a P3C tracked it it shows that's a great aircraft satisfying in 100% purposes for what it was built and it's crews are great professionals who can exploit it's capabilities to the maximum. You don't detect submarines just because they are made of metal parts... Aircraft is indeed the most potent weapon against submarines all over the world since WWII days when the allied obliterated the u-boot armada.

Why it is not in a good light? I pass your window, you saw me, so it looks bad for me? How scary your staring is!

What protocol? As you just said, the sub was outside of 12 miles range to the disputed islands. What kind of protocol dictate whether a naval vessel should or should not conceal itself, raising or not raising its ensign in this water? A protocol is an agreement between two parties, is there such agreement between China and Japan? I don't think so.

 

[taxiya]

Not within 12 nautical miles but into contiguous zone (24 miles zone) around Taisho Island. They detected a submarine going underwater NW in the contiguous zone around Miyako Island using a P-3 and JS Onami earlier. It seems like Onami was tracking it all the time after that (enough to draw a precise course on the map). The other vessel was Type 054.

​

Yes, it's not the first time it happened. It was similar to the event from 2016.

The more interesting question is where was the sub before 10th. Somewhere not looking good for Japan?

 

[Wakingbake]

New guided-missile frigate Rizhao joins PLA Navy
Source

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Editor
Zhang Tao
Time
2018-01-12
A+-

The photo taken on January 12, 2018 shows a ceremony marking the commission of the guided-missile frigate Rizhao (Hull 598) in the PLA Navy's North China Sea Fleet at a naval port in Dalian, northeast China's Liaoning province. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Zhang Hailong)
DALIAN, Jan. 12 (ChinaMil) -- The new guided-missile frigate Rizhao (Hull 598) joined a destroyer flotilla attached to the North China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy on Jan. 12, with the commissioning and naming ceremony held at a naval port in Dalian, north China's Liaoning province on Friday.

The ceremony began at 10:00 a.m. , Wang Jianwu, commander of a destroyer flotilla attached to the North China Sea Fleet, announced the commissioning and naming order, and presented the ensigns of the PLA and the PLA Navy and the naming certificate to the new frigate.

Launched in April 2017,the 140-meter-long and 16-meter-wide frigate Rizhao, with a full displacement of over 4,000 tons, is developed and built by the Huangpu Wenchong Shipbuilding Company under China State Shipbuilding Corporation (CSSC).

As a new member of the Type 054A frigates family, the Rizhao is equipped with advanced weapon systems and capable of attacking surface ships and submarines independently or in coordination with other naval forces.

The frigate is named after the city of Rizhao in Shandong Province.

The picture shows the guided-missile frigate Rizhao (Hull 598) berths at a naval port in Dalian, north China’s Liaoning province, on January 12, 2018.(eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Zhang Hailong)

The picture shows the guided-missile frigate Rizhao (Hull 598) berths at a naval port in Dalian, north China’s Liaoning province, on January 12, 2018.(eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Zhang Hailong)

The picture shows the guided-missile frigate Rizhao (Hull 598) berths at a naval port in Dalian, north China’s Liaoning province, on January 12, 2018.(eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Zhang Hailong)

 

[Janiz]

Like I said, the PLANAF's KQ-200 can do the exact same to a Virginia, Yasen, or Soryu

I'm eagerly waiting to see reports about PLAN

1) detecting underwater cruising nuclear powered submarine
2) tracking it down to the pinpoint
3) taking commemorative photos with it surfaced and showing ensign surfaced (as I can imagine many of those aboard JS Onami did taking a walk with one of the "state of art Chinese submarine")

Those are facts...

I think that's Jeff's 'pond' of interest so I think that he's the only capable person on this forum to speak about it.

 

[Blitzo]

I am not very sure what submarine is that.

Only 09IIIB in service should have a hump corresponding to that.


They must be sending quite a message to sail it surfaced like that

 

[Klon]

Only 09IIIB in service should have a hump corresponding to that.

Some say otherwise.

 

[taxiya]

Some say otherwise.

I think there is no need to focus on A or B, after all the A and Bs are only used by outsiders like us, PLAN could regard them as the same. What is meaningful is that this one has a hump different from others.

 

[Janiz]

They must be sending quite a message to sail it surfaced like that

I actually feel sorry for them after all that and JMSDF taking pictures and making it public right off might be even conisdered as 'bad behavior' on the Japanese side to torment them even more... I'm 100% sure that was the submarines' CO last journey.