Japanese Mitsubishi X2 Stealth Aircraft News

Zool

Junior Member
Here.

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It was announced in 2010.

Thanks SB, that is a bit more helpful. Can you provide some context though? I'm sure I'm one of a few that does not read Japanese.

Specifically can you say how that tailless concept relates to the actual X-2 today and the fighter X-2 is planned to be when operational with the JSDF? Because as I said in my last reply to B787, I do not see what relevant data will be gained from X-2 flight and rcs testing in relation to the concept design.

For example the previous slide in the presentation shows a progression of aircraft from old to new (the last being the tailless concept), so is the next Japanese fighter to be built going to be a Tailless 6th Gen as B787 has said, or is that a longer term plan after a 5th Gen Fighter based on X-2 has been put into service? Or is it an early concept that was rejected?

Appreciate some clarity. Cheers.
 
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SamuraiBlue

Captain
Thanks SB, that is a bit more helpful. Can you provide some context though? I'm sure I'm one of a few that does not read Japanese.

Specifically can you say how that tailless concept relates to the actual X-2 today and the fighter X-2 is planned to be when operational with the JSDF? Because as I said in my last reply to B787, I do not see what relevant data will be gained from X-2 flight and rcs testing in relation to the concept design.
For example the previous slide in the presentation shows a progression of aircraft from old to new (the last being the tailless concept), so is the next Japanese fighter to be built going to be a Tailless 6th Gen as B787 has said, or is that a longer term plan after a 5th Gen Fighter based on X-2 has been put into service? Or is it an early concept that was rejected?

Appreciate some clarity. Cheers.

The tailless design is merely a concept which has no relevance to the future F-3 fighter.
X-2 is a proof of concept prototype incorporating various new technology in Engine design and components, Advanced Skin radar concept, advanced stealth technology including plasma actuator, and Advanced avionic not including HMDS which will be developed independently.

The digital mock up of 26DMU on wards will not be disclosed to the public so the next time we see a proto-type of the F-3 would be around 2025~2027 when she will make maiden flight.

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I guess you'll have an easier understanding of this which is the latest 25MDU.
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For you information I do not read Chinese.


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Brumby

Major
Tokyo speaking with industry about futuristic F-3 fighter

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Japan’s Ministry of Defence has requested information from international aerospace firms to explore options for its planned F-3 fighter programme, which could see a new type deployed in the 2030s.

Three options are on the table, according to an official familiar with the matter. The first is to develop an all-new fighter indigenously, the second is to collaborate with a foreign partner for a new aircraft, and the third is to buy or upgrade an existing type.

“General discussions” are underway with companies including Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Eurofighter.

Should the programme advance, the F-3 would be produced by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI), possibly in conjunction with overseas suppliers.

“Japan is seeking information from a variety of potential industry partners and we are certainly interested in another potential opportunity to bolster our longstanding partnership with Japan,” says Lockheed in an email to Flightglobal.

“We are proud of our successful partnerships with Japan on the F-35 program and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries on the F-2 program. We look forward to learning more about Japan’s F-3 plans as discussions progress.”

Boeing is also interested in the potential programme.

“We are aware of the request for information the Japan Ministry of Defense has posted, and are in the process of reviewing the requirements,” says the US airframer.

“Boeing has a history spanning more than 60 years of partnerships with industry in Japan which sets us apart from our competitors. We are constantly looking for ways to grow those relationships and increase our presence in Japan, and are open to discussions with the customer to see how we can help meet their security needs.”

The F-3 programme could eventually see up to 100 aircraft produced. It would replace Japan’s locally-built fleet of F-2s.

Mitsubishi is now gearing up for local production of 42 F-35As, following the type’s 2011 selection in a competition for new fighters. MHI also produced Tokyo’s fleet of F-15Js under licence.

Tokyo has demonstrated a keen interest to provide a meaningful contribution to the F-3 programme through the development of the X-2 fighter technology demonstrator.

Built by Mitsubishi, the X-2 conducted its first flight in April. It has been handed over to Japan’s Acquisition, Technology, & Logistics Agency (ATLA), which plans 50 or more flights to explore technologies related to advanced fighters, such as thrust vectoring and stealth.

The X-2 is a key component of a larger effort Japan has made since the 1990s to explore technologies necessary for stealthy fifth- or sixth-generation aircraft. The effort comprises 15 separate programmes, of which the X-2 itself is the most significant. These are investigating specific technologies such as weapons bays, sensors, data links, and other areas deemed necessary for advanced fighter aircraft.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
It is a 6th generation.

Now Blue??? lets not get ahead of ourselves, that aircraft is still a very iffy 5th gen, and I would suggest its a fishing bait to pull Lockmart into an F-22 follow on, maybe even a YF-23 rebirth????

The F-22 and the F-35 are both solid 5th gens, Stealthy, full of sensors and advanced systems, not saying the F-3 will not get to sixth gen, but why, the 5th gen is so advanced over even 4++ fighters that its astounding, to make a leap to sixth gen is now being questioned here in the States. I would recommend that Mitsubishi pursue something very similar to the YF-23, with new Tech, and the Leap Engine technology? and market it as the Hi end, nothing less than a Hi end fighter will really suffice in our ever more dangerous world, with Air Defenses proliferating and relatively cheap in comparison to fighter aircraft that we hope could successfully penetrate those defenses and operate with them in relative safety??

It had better be very stealthy, fly very High, and be very fast, maybe very, very fast, an upgrade YF-23 would look like a winner to me, and from my own perspective, there could be no better partnership than the US/Japan, lots of vision, and a definitive need for both parties, we both have a lot of "skin in the game"!
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Might be better to directly go for sixth gen.

Honestly, we have only begun to scratch the surface of fifth gen capabilities, we should pursue incremental technologies that are known quantities and do-able, the first rule of goal setting in programs is that it must be practical, and "attainable", no need to get ahead of the curve and spend money we don't have, pursuing something that "might work", and really all this talk of "blah, ba blah, blah, blah!" pie in the sky by and by?

Not saying there won't be a break-through technology developed tomorrow, but for now lets stick to real life and pursue the nearly endless possibilities that the fifth gen aircraft offer us today and for the foreseeable future!
 

Brumby

Major
The F-22 and the F-35 are both solid 5th gens, Stealthy, full of sensors and advanced systems, not saying the F-3 will not get to sixth gen, but why, the 5th gen is so advanced over even 4++ fighters that its astounding, to make a leap to sixth gen is now being questioned here in the States. I would recommend that Mitsubishi pursue something very similar to the YF-23, with new Tech, and the Leap Engine technology? and market it as the Hi end, nothing less than a Hi end fighter will really suffice in our ever more dangerous world, with Air Defenses proliferating and relatively cheap in comparison to fighter aircraft that we hope could successfully penetrate those defenses and operate with them in relative safety??
I concur with your reasoning. There are a lot more juice that can be squeezed out of the F-22 and F-35 if solid development work are put behind these programs. As is, the current capabilities offered by both these platforms are in my view just the tip of the ice berg. I am surprised by Japan's low acquisition number of the F-35. I would expect at a minimum we would be looking at 2 to 3 times the official number as a requirement.

Developing 5th gen platform is an expensive proposition. It cost $32 billion with the F-22 and $55 Billion with the F-35. I don't think Japan can come in with a 5th/6th gen product for less than $30 Billion. If the plan is to just buy 100 units, it would mean a development cost of $300 million per plane before even the first plane is produced. Such scale in development cost and limited volume demand would simply make the program a non starter regardless of Japan's capabilities. I think the notion that you can come up with a 5th gen product for $10 Billion is a Russian fantasy being sold to the delusional.

If Japan is serious in jump starting such a program, the only viable path is to get in bed with the European/French camp who are looking at life beyond the Typhoon/Rafael. Sharing development cost and the joint demand may make the program more realistic. LM/Boeing might be interested to take a share under such an arrangement. There is no feasible pathway I can see for Japan to do it alone.

In my view, the case for the F-35 is highly under appreciated in a business model of driving economies of scale with a global product. At $100 million an aircraft, the participating countries are getting a lot of capabilities. The Indians with their MRCA program and the Koreans with the KF-X will eventually conclude IMO that there is a big divide between desire, reality and funding needed to succeed.
 
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