Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

aksha

Captain
Disagree.

US will not easily let India get away with it. There is something called retaliation will be implemented.
disagree the if the USN csgs attack india ,the battle will go badly for them,india is not argentina. it has one of the most powerful air forces in the world,with the SHUKHOI 30 MKI as their bockbone and FGFA starting to enter the force by 2020. the US may win but it will be a phyrric victory.

besides why are you so insistant that the US will attack india. relations between the 2 have improved a lot over the last decade.
 
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HMS Astute

Junior Member
disagree the if the USN csgs attack india ,the battle will go badly for them,india is not argentina. it has one of the most powerful air forces in the world,with the SHUKHOI 30 MKI as their bockbone and FGFA starting to enter the force by 2020. the US may win but it will be a phyrric victory.

besides why are you so insistant that the US will attack india. relations between the 2 have improved a lot over the last decade.

This whole discussion started as many Indian in the forums are bragging about how the world's the one and only supersonic/hypersonic cruise missile can literally crumble NATO/US CSGs and there is no escape for our support units (Type 45, Arleigh Burke, Astute, Virginia etc) as soon as their India's best"est" missile is launched etc. Even the Indian defence ministers boasted about it and they said "enemies stand helpless against Brahmos", "no effective weapon against Brahmos", "no escape", "best missile on earth" blabla. I am not denying this missile is not deadly, but this "there is nothing which can defend Brahmos" and "all our naval forces (NATO) should be terrified" and "our new carriers (Ford, QE) would be sunk by these missiles etc" thing just makes me cringe.
 
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aksha

Captain
This whole discussion started as many Indian in the forums are bragging about how the world's the one and only supersonic/hypersonic cruise missile can literally crumble NATO/US CSGs and there is no escape for our support units (Type 45, Arleigh Burke, Astute, Virginia etc) as soon as their India's best"est" missile is launched etc. Even the Indian defence ministers boasted about it and they said "enemies stand helpless against Brahmos", "no effective weapon against Brahmos", "no escape", "best missile on earth" blabla. I am not denying this missile is not deadly, but this "there is nothing which can defend Brahmos" and "all our naval forces (NATO) should be terrified" and "our new carriers (Ford, QE) would be sunk by these missiles etc" thing just makes me cringe.


show me single post of that type in this thread , if in other forums take your greviance there ,this is not the place for your india vs us posts.
the indian ministers never said that nato forces should be terrified nor did they say that it is a carrier killer.
if the NATO is indeed facing the bramhos they should be indeed worried,reason never underestimate your opponent

even if they did brag about a missile theres no reason for the US to attack india for that
 
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HMS Astute

Junior Member
I never started a scenario about US/NATO attacking India, but vice versa. It is not my business, anyway.

So, let's move on.
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
CORRECT ON ALL COUNTS EXCEPT HERE.

there won't be another naval mmrca deal for the navy .the iaf's mmrca circus has been going on for more than a decade and they haven't got a single aircraft yet.


That's fine. That's how long some tenders take in India. The Scorpene contract was signed in 2005 (originally initiated in 1997) and we are yet to get our first sub. The MRCA negotiations timeframe that you see now isn't the first time.

You see large delays whenever major license production is involved.

besides 45 mig29k's aren't enough for both vikramaditya and vikrant ,reasonsthey will need a minimum of 90 fighters for the vikram and vikrant,both of which is expected to serve atleast till 2040

That's where the F-35B comes into the picture. And Rafale can be configured for STOBAR operations.

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So both F-35 and Rafale can be primary contenders.

the F35 B & C has a very high chance of operating in the IN if the US allows them

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Lockheed has offered, and Pentagon has mentioned in a report that they are open to sell F-35s to India whenever asked for it.

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aksha

Captain
That's fine. That's how long some tenders take in India. The Scorpene contract was signed in 2005 (originally initiated in 1997) and we are yet to get our first sub. The MRCA negotiations timeframe that you see now isn't the first time.

You see large delays whenever major license production is involved.



That's where the F-35B comes into the picture. And Rafale can be configured for STOBAR operations.

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So both F-35 and Rafale can be primary contenders.



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Lockheed has offered, and Pentagon has mentioned in a report that they are open to sell F-35s to India whenever asked for it.

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rafale can't carry the same loadouts as mig29k,rafale delta wings are not foldable(therefore cant be used on vikramaditya ,check the elevator dimensions on vikram,the french abondoned rafle m foldable wings because they though it was too expensive.it can only be used on vikrant.

the IN if they buy F35's the can use the B on the FOUR 40,000 TONNE lHD's they will build by 2027, F35 C CAN BE USED ON THE stobar CARRIERS TOO.

as i said they want the mig29k's to be their last foreign aircraft ,unless F35's are offered and the IN finds them economical.
they will order the next year when all of the first batch of mig 29k's are deliverd.

other than F35's i see no surprises by the IN,changing to another 4.5 very expensive gen(like rafle) is not smart especially when fifth gen aircrafts are around the corner.

anyway time will tell,if by next year the IN hase'nt ordered more mig29k's then we might see F35's,but most probably they will be F35 B's for the LHD's
 

aksha

Captain
Light Chopper Contest 3.0 Begins, Third Time Lucky For Jinxed Indian Effort?
After scrapping the Indian military's effort to procure light helicopters for the second time in August, the third iteration of the now infamous Reconnaissance & Surveillance Helicopter (RSH) has just begun. On Friday October 31, the Indian Army published a fresh request for information (RFI) on behalf of itself and the Indian Air Force throwing open the jinxed contest for the third time now to 'urgently replace the fleet of existing Cheetah and Chetak helicopters with suitable helicopters of modern design'.

The new procurement attempt (necessitated by the scrapping of the earlier one by the incoming government that balked at the proposition of buying nearly 200 helicopters straight off a foreign production line) looks to induct helicopters off an Indian production line. The Friday RFI says, 'This Request for Information (RFI) is being issued with the aim of identifying probable INDIAN VENDORS (including an Indian company forming joint venture/ establishing production arrangement with OEM) who can provide the helicopters followed by licensed production/ indigenous manufacture in the country.' (I didn't upper-case 'INDIAN VENDORS', FYI.)

The official day/night mission profile of the new helicopters has been set out as: (a) Reconnaissance and Surveillance, including armed reconnaissance. (b) Direction of Artillery Fire. (c) Carry small body of troops/Quick Reaction Teams for special missions. (d) Aerial Photography. (e) Scout role in conjunction with Attack Helicopter. (f) Airborne Forward Air Controller (FAC), if required. (g) Casualty Evacuation. (h) NBC monitoring. (j) Platform for ESM, ECM and ECCM etc. (k) Provide dynamic response during aid to civil authorities.

Significantly, the RFI doesn't stipulate number of engines required, but asks vendors to specify if they will field single or twin engine platforms. There is also nothing in the RFI to suggest that the earlier requirement of 197 helicopters has changed.

The operative portion of the RFI on production is this one: 'It is envisaged that initial few quantities of helicopters will be supplied in fully formed condition. Further manufacture of helicopters by the vendor within the country in keeping with the requirement of 30% indigenous content is envisaged within 3-4 years after the contract is signed. Vendor to indicate specifically the earliest timeframe within which it can meet this requirement? If not, what is the earliest timeframe in which the vendor can commence delivering the helicopters manufactured within the country. Vendor to also indicate as to what is the annual production capability it can achieve in keeping with the above requirement?'
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I've read your assessment on India's air arm in the Pro Discussions thread. Since I cannot reply over there, I though it would be better to answer some of the points you've made over here instead.



The navy is not going to order more Mig-29s. The future orders will be for CATOBAR capable aircraft, with the exception being the N-LCA. So we are looking at a new MRCA tender, or just outright purchases of either Rafale-M or F-35C. The navy sent out a preliminary RFI in 2009 for 36 aircraft with 36 more as options.

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We could be looking at new orders for 40-80 MRCA aircraft pretty soon. The planned 45 additional Mig-29s have either been put on hold or canceled.

Now, coming to the points you have raised.


It is true that our the forces are deficient in such assets, but multiple programs have been initiated for the same. When it comes to AEW&Cs, there are a total of three programs. One is the Israeli Phalcons, the second is a DRDO-CABS program for an indigenous AEW&C on an Embraer platform and the third is the analogue to the Phalcons and is called AWACS-India. Apart from the 5 Phalcons, the plan is to induct well over 20 of the smaller Embraer AEW&C. And a new program for 6 more Phalcon class AEW&C under AWACS-India. Naturally, the numbers will climb as the program progresses.

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We also mustn't forget that the navy's P-8I are unique, and come with a full 360 degree air surveillance capability (unlike the USN's P-8A), further augmenting the military's surveillance capability. 12 have been ordered and there is a requirement for 12 more P-8Is. So be on the look out for additional orders.

Back in 2006, the navy had studied inducting the E-2C Hawkeye for their carriers. Things didn't work out due to the less capable STOBAR capability of the AEW platform. Apparently, if launched in a STOBAR configuration, the endurance of the aircraft is just one hour. So we are looking at a new FMS deal for the E-2D Hawkeye meant for a new CATOBAR capable carrier, INS Vishal.

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As far as tankers are concerned, it seems to be a problem area. After the 6 IL-78s were inducted, the air force initiated a program for new refuelers, but after the tender process was completed, with the A330 as the victor, the finance ministry scuttled the deal citing high costs. So the tender was restarted with LCC (life cycle costs) being the basis. The A330 deal is currently in the limbo because of rebranding. The company (Cassidian, I believe) that participated in the tender has passed the project on to Airbus, so it is stuck in bureaucratic red tape. The tender is for 6 aircraft with 6 more as options. If signed, the refueler fleet will have a total of 18 aircraft. Hopefully, the new govt is not going to sit on the file. Eventually, the navy will also want to acquire new tankers.

The forces have focused a lot of their energies in acquiring buddy refueling capabilities for all aircraft. However, unlike the AEW&C fleet, the tanker fleet is in the doldrums, and I hope it is fixed as soon as possible.



Very true and this is another area of core importance to the navy. As already mentioned, there are 12 P-8Is ordered, and a possible order for 12 more. The navy has also released a new tender for 9 MRMRs with probably as many in options.

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So we are possibly looking at 21 on paper or flying and 21 more orders in the next few years. This is apart from the Tu-142 and IL-38 which are being upgraded to last at least 2 more decades. So we are looking good as far as MPAs are concerned.



We have three fighter aircraft programs running in parallel. One is the LCA, the other is the FGFA and the third is the AMCA. Apart from that there are a number of UAV and UCAV programs, like the Rustom family and the AURA UCAV. In the transport segment, there is the IL-214 program as well.

There are two hypersonic development programs, one is DRDO's HSTDV and the other is ISRO's RLV.



There is a reliable source who said more Su-30MKIs are to be ordered depending on the financial situation.



These numbers are expected to go up soon. The IAF has mentioned they want to increase the C-17 fleet to 25. There is also a new request out for 1 more C-130J as attrition replacement.

45 IL-214s are expected to be ordered.



There is no chance for the IAF to order the F-35, but there is a huge potential for the navy to do so. With the FGFA program, IAF officials have already mentioned that there is no requirement for the F-35.
Thank you for those comments.

Very good info which I and others will appreciate.

I will move your comments over to that thread.

AND WELCOME TO SD!

As you get more experience and posts on the forum, you will be able to take part in the professional discussion forum too.
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
rafale can't carry the same loadouts as mig29k,rafale delta wings are not foldable(therefore cant be used on vikramaditya ,check the elevator dimensions on vikram,the french abondoned rafle m foldable wings because they though it was too expensive.it can only be used on vikrant.

That's fine. 45 Mig-29s can be used on the Gorky and new orders can be placed for Vikrant. Regardless, IN is going for a new MRCA order, whether it is through a tender or FMS.

the IN if they buy F35's the can use the B on the FOUR 40,000 TONNE lHD's they will build by 2027, F35 C CAN BE USED ON THE stobar CARRIERS TOO.

I doubt the IN has such a large need for fighter jets right away. The LPDs are required for their primary purpose of carrying troops and a support fleet of helicopters.

other than F35's i see no surprises by the IN,changing to another 4.5 very expensive gen(like rafle) is not smart especially when fifth gen aircrafts are around the corner.

Rafale would be cheaper, and may come with license production. IN is going to have to fight with the IAF for budget allocation. And IAF's requirements take priority. So the financial condition is key.
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
Thank you for those comments.

Very good info which I and others will appreciate.

I will move your comments over to that thread.

AND WELCOME TO SD!

As you get more experience and posts on the forum, you will be able to take part in the professional discussion forum too.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to that.
 
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