China Flanker Thread II

[Deino]

The picture with J-11B flying CAN NOT BE AL-31F !!! Period !!!

Just go take a look at a SU-27 or J-11A with AL-31F or AL-31FN and compare it yourself !!

Where did I say that ??? ... but I think YOU simply don't get it. As such let me explain again:

AL-31F = Flanker-version with gear-box on top
AL-31FN = J-10-version with gear-box on the bottom
--> both have externaly no difference if You only look at the nozzle

WS-10A = Flanker-version with gear-box on top
WS-10B = J-10B (1035)-version with gear-box on the bottom
--> both have externaly no difference if You only look at the nozzle

As such if this new black-nozzle TH is a new version (and not only due to new materials) it cannot be used in the J-10B or J-10P if You call a PAF-version like that; period ! Again the problem or our misunderstanding is the letter "B". If that is already used for the J-10B-version, it simply cannnot be used in a Flanker, PERIOD !

That engine has a much shorter nozzle than the Al-31F, I can easily tell them apart !!!

That is a WS-10 engine with black nozzle !! Most likely an improved variant AKA rumored WS-10B !!!

They earlier WS-10A has a white engine nozzle but that does not mean that WS-10B or WS-10G can not have a black nozzle. To tell apart a AL-31F or WS-10 they key is to look at the length of the nozzle not the color !!

I think I'm well aware of the nozzle-differences between an AL-31 and a TH but that remains to be seen of this new version is the WS-10B. But again simply if the WS-10B is already the designation reseved for the J-10B-version, then it simply can't be used in a Flanker as explained above. You might call it WS-10C or xyz but simply not "B" since this is arelday reseved.

Also, WS-10 engine is NEVER intended for the J-10 in the first place, because when J-10 was under development it was using AL-31F all alone. Unlike the J-11B, J-15 and J-16 which have been powered by the WS-10 engine for most of the time. They are far more likely to receive the priority rather than the J-10. This is also why J-10B is now using the more updated AL-31FM1 rather than the old AL-31FN with 1 more ton of thrust and FADEC !!

Agreed and NO ... Yes, the WS-10A was nearly strictly reserved for the Chinese Flanker-family, but since the TH already poweres J-10B '1035' it must feature the same changes from AL-31F to FN, namely the change of gear-box to the bottom.

NO regarding the mentioned AL-31FM1 ... this version at least right now does not exist yet. If I thrust my sourses in Moscow, then - as reported in the engine tread - the currently delivered version is the AL-31FN series III and not the AL-31FM1 or even M2 (which is still bench testing). That does not exclude that it will be so in the future, but sright now there is only an AL-31F-M1 and no AL-31FN-M1 !

China might put WS-10 series engine of exported J-10s such as the J-10P or F-20 for Pakistan due to the fact for political reasons. However for domestic J-10s are will be using AL-31FM1s for now.

YES, but then again this could be the WS-10B as used in J-10B '1035' but surely not a Flanker-version.

 

[A.Man]

My friend, this is the easiest way to turn the gear-box around:

 

[Air Force Brat]

Where did I say that ??? ... but I think YOU simply don't get it. As such let me explain again:

AL-31F = Flanker-version with gear-box on top
AL-31FN = J-10-version with gear-box on the bottom
--> both have externaly no difference if You only look at the nozzle

WS-10A = Flanker-version with gear-box on top
WS-10B = J-10B (1035)-version with gear-box on the bottom
--> both have externaly no difference if You only look at the nozzle

As such if this new black-nozzle TH is a new version (and not only due to new materials) it cannot be used in the J-10B or J-10P if You call a PAF-version like that; period ! Again the problem or our misunderstanding is the letter "B". If that is already used for the J-10B-version, it simply cannnot be used in a Flanker, PERIOD !




I think I'm well aware of the nozzle-differences between an AL-31 and a TH but that remains to be seen of this new version is the WS-10B. But again simply if the WS-10B is already the designation reseved for the J-10B-version, then it simply can't be used in a Flanker as explained above. You might call it WS-10C or xyz but simply not "B" since this is arelday reseved.



Agreed and NO ... Yes, the WS-10A was nearly strictly reserved for the Chinese Flanker-family, but since the TH already poweres J-10B '1035' it must feature the same changes from AL-31F to FN, namely the change of gear-box to the bottom.

NO regarding the mentioned AL-31FM1 ... this version at least right now does not exist yet. If I thrust my sourses in Moscow, then - as reported in the engine tread - the currently delivered version is the AL-31FN series III and not the AL-31FM1 or even M2 (which is still bench testing). That does not exclude that it will be so in the future, but sright now there is only an AL-31F-M1 and no AL-31FN-M1 !




YES, but then again this could be the WS-10B as used in J-10B '1035' but surely not a Flanker-version.

Thanks Deino, this is all confusing for me, but at least I don't feel so bad now as it appears I'm not the only one confused.... This confusion does make it difficult to get a grasp of what engine is flying in which airframe.

 

[nkvd]

24.12.2013

FSUE “Gas-Turbine Engineering RPC “Salut” has successfully completed the first phase of engine longevity and performance bench tests in view of future deliveries of a new version of AL-31FN Series 3.

The AL-31FN Series 3 engine was run in the climatic test chamber of the Central Institute of Aviation Engine Studies in pursuance of a contract with PRC. The new engine variant has improved life-time (250 hours extension) and thrust (additional 1000 kg/f) performance versus its predecessor.

The test preparation and supervision work was assumed by Salut's Direction of R&D Activity2....

From the horse`s mouth AND NOTE THE DATE and client.So clearly its not FM1 or 2 and seems to me Deino is right

 

[Quickie]

Where did I say that ??? ... but I think YOU simply don't get it. As such let me explain again:

AL-31F = Flanker-version with gear-box on top
AL-31FN = J-10-version with gear-box on the bottom
--> both have externaly no difference if You only look at the nozzle

WS-10A = Flanker-version with gear-box on top
WS-10B = J-10B (1035)-version with gear-box on the bottom
--> both have externaly no difference if You only look at the nozzle

As such if this new black-nozzle TH is a new version (and not only due to new materials) it cannot be used in the J-10B or J-10P if You call a PAF-version like that; period ! Again the problem or our misunderstanding is the letter "B". If that is already used for the J-10B-version, it simply cannnot be used in a Flanker, PERIOD !




I think I'm well aware of the nozzle-differences between an AL-31 and a TH but that remains to be seen of this new version is the WS-10B. But again simply if the WS-10B is already the designation reseved for the J-10B-version, then it simply can't be used in a Flanker as explained above. You might call it WS-10C or xyz but simply not "B" since this is arelday reseved.



Agreed and NO ... Yes, the WS-10A was nearly strictly reserved for the Chinese Flanker-family, but since the TH already poweres J-10B '1035' it must feature the same changes from AL-31F to FN, namely the change of gear-box to the bottom.

NO regarding the mentioned AL-31FM1 ... this version at least right now does not exist yet. If I thrust my sourses in Moscow, then - as reported in the engine tread - the currently delivered version is the AL-31FN series III and not the AL-31FM1 or even M2 (which is still bench testing). That does not exclude that it will be so in the future, but sright now there is only an AL-31F-M1 and no AL-31FN-M1 !




YES, but then again this could be the WS-10B as used in J-10B '1035' but surely not a Flanker-version.

This seems like not efficient way of labelling. One would expect the changing of the gear position to be quite minor and the variant of WS-10A engine to be tagged as something like WS-10AN. WS-10B, as what it is claimed to be, as discussed above, doesn't seem logical because how do you then label the improved variant of the WS-10A engine down the line. WS-10C? or WS-10AX?

 

[Deino]

This seems like not efficient way of labelling. One would expect the changing of the gear position to be quite minor and the variant of WS-10A engine to be tagged as something like WS-10AN. WS-10B, as what it is claimed to be, as discussed above, doesn't seem logical because how do you then label the improved variant of the WS-10A engine down the line. WS-10C? or WS-10AX?

You are correct and as far as I know the lettern F and FN are Russian additions. As such - if the WS-10A for Flankers and the WS-10 for J-10B are indeed more or less the same as AL-31F and FN, they maybe use a similar additional letter in Chionese, but sadly I don't know. However I simply took - and given the Chinese line of designations - Huitong's designation WS-10B.

Anyway I hope I could have helped to solve that confusion a but even if the mystry about that black pedals is still not solved.

Deino

 

[thunderchief]

NO regarding the mentioned AL-31FM1 ... this version at least right now does not exist yet. If I thrust my sourses in Moscow, then - as reported in the engine tread - the currently delivered version is the AL-31FN series III and not the AL-31FM1 or even M2 (which is still bench testing). That does not exclude that it will be so in the future, but sright now there is only an AL-31F-M1 and no AL-31FN-M1 !
.

Well , AL-31FN series III has approximately same thrust as AL-31F-M1 , according to the link you provided . Therefore , you could put two and two together :

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IMHO , AL-31FN series III is a AL-31F-M1 with gear-box on bottom . They started testing that engine last month , and no other plane except J-10 uses FN version therefore conclusion is clear

 

[Blitzo]

J-15 with refuelling pod.

Real photo?

 

[kwaigonegin]

J-15 with refuelling pod.

Real photo?

Real or PSed it doesn't matter because we know Flankers can do buddy refueling so there's no reason to believe that J-15s can't. I wrote about the aerial pod many many posts ago either in this thread or some other but too lazy to go find it LOL.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

My call is PS, This is promotional materials intended to sell J15 and show off potential future features. if the pod is real it's a mock up.