Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
I'd say that this shows they've ironed pretty much all bottlenecks as far as problems with the materials went. It's important to keep in mind that aeroengine manufacturing is just as much a organizational/logistical challenge as it is a technological one. There's no single "secret sauce" technology that either makes or breaks the deal but rather a culmination of various logistical factors including supply chains, material acquisitions, technical/talent base as well as organizational memory and documentation (know-how) of what works, what doesn't, how to diagnose a problem and more; and a lot of this isn't written in research papers, a lot of it just has to be learned on the spot. If you've worked as engineer at any decently sized company on any decently sized project, you'd know what this means. All these headaches, failures, and mess were necessary for Chinese aeroengine industry. They HAD to suffer through the WS-10's development to be able to get this good. Any country seeking to build a world-class aeroengine industry will need to go through this exact process, there's no way to bypass it. The US went through exactly this even as late as the 90s when our aeroengine industry was sufficiently mature.
The basic theories of jet engines (and combustion engines in general) had been know for ages. The main difference between China and the encumbents in the West and Russia is that they had mass producing them for far longer. For production, there is no route to competence outside of actually manufacturing them.
Way back in the early 2000s, China was confident enough to plug a WS-10 into a single-engine J-10 prototype and fly it. Just making an engine, I think China had been able to do for a long time. But making them at volume consistently simply took time for the industrial base to mature. You are talking about the manufacture of thousands of parts and then assembling them.
The WS-10 went into the J-10 as a mass produced product in 2020 with the J-10C. There is simply no substitute for time and experience. It is an upward trajectory from here.
Way back in the early 2000s, China was confident enough to plug a WS-10 into a single-engine J-10 prototype and fly it. Just making an engine, I think China had been able to do for a long time. But making them at volume consistently simply took time for the industrial base to mature. You are talking about the manufacture of thousands of parts and then assembling them.
The WS-10 went into the J-10 as a mass produced product in 2020 with the J-10C. There is simply no substitute for time and experience. It is an upward trajectory from here.
Yeah, i think its normal. Chinese members are now getting used to Chins developing so fast and even being ahead in some.sectors that they tend to forget how far behind the country was just a few years or a decade ago. Its normal, we humans tend to have a very short memory span a d we forget quickly. Once we get used to a new fast reality we start expecting even more aad want results even faster. Its only human.
China has come from very far indeed. I believe this coming decade will be even more crucial for the country. They will be nearing parity with the US in almost every field ome can think of. That's my observation anyway
I believ the fact that Xi jinping encouraged China's fragmented engine companies to merge under one company helped alot as well. Since it centralized and accelerated the development of indigenous aircraft engines in the country that time it seems engine breakthrough and speed accelerated. So i guess looking back it was a good policy with good foresight. The results has been impressive since then, compared to before.
antiterror13
Brigadier
I can sense that China "potentially" will be dominating turbofan engine in 10-120 years . .like many examples in the past
antiterror13
Brigadier
I think having 2 or 3 engine companies would be better .. having a competition even within China is great, China is a huge country and can afford even 3-4 advanced engine companies
Unlike UK and France which only have one advanced engine company. The US have 2
Different teems inside AECC still compete against each other. But they now all share the same component R&D stack to draw from for their designs.
BTW, mass production requires things made in economy of scale. That is the economic side of things can literally scale out of control if you do not get ahold of the cost of manufacture and assembly.
US pundits srill laughs that China cannot make a ballpoint pen until 2017. Well, no. You can probably make a single perfectly round ball point in an aerospace lab in China for the cost of hundreds of dollars since the 1970s.
But in 2017, China was able to make ball point bearings economical being only one of three countries (Japan and Germany as the other two) to make them economical -- under a dollar.
The US if it needs to make a ballpoint pen entirely on its own, it would cost ~$39 per pen.
The production principals are the same for any mass produced products. It takes a long time to wring out the inefficiencies and put in place more efficient processes. Just as the Chinese pen's eco-system came into stride just in 2017 so its turbofan industry is approaching that state sometimes in the near future.
And let's imagine what happens when China speed and China price hits aero engines.
US pundits srill laughs that China cannot make a ballpoint pen until 2017. Well, no. You can probably make a single perfectly round ball point in an aerospace lab in China for the cost of hundreds of dollars since the 1970s.
But in 2017, China was able to make ball point bearings economical being only one of three countries (Japan and Germany as the other two) to make them economical -- under a dollar.
The US if it needs to make a ballpoint pen entirely on its own, it would cost ~$39 per pen.
The production principals are the same for any mass produced products. It takes a long time to wring out the inefficiencies and put in place more efficient processes. Just as the Chinese pen's eco-system came into stride just in 2017 so its turbofan industry is approaching that state sometimes in the near future.
And let's imagine what happens when China speed and China price hits aero engines.
antiterror13
Brigadier
Yes, China was mocked of not able to make the ball point bearings
. Actually ball point bearing is not high tech, just niche and small market and China didn't bother to focus their energy to do that as somebody else (Japan and Switzerland) already made it cheap enough. When China couldn’t make a ballpoint tip in the 2010s, it was framed as a national embarrassment, while similar gaps in the U.S. or Europe were seen as strategic outsourcing.Because the late prime minister Li Keqiang wanted to have the capability, some resources dedicated to it and now China dominating almost entire ball point bearing industry, estimated at 85%, Japan 10% and Switzerland 5%. Before 2017, China produced 0%
Be careful of what you wish for ..... I think it will happen on AI chips, DUV and EUV lithography, just a matter of time
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