Obviously this is some pipe dream I have but somehow if the JF-17 gets to use this monster of an engine
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Is what the Kaveri produces wet. Let that sink in.
Right, just because WS-15 could reach 40,000lbs doesn't mean it's going be that high in service. 35,000-36,000lbf is probably sufficient for J-20A.
Quite the opposite. Theoretical maximums tend to be higher than engines are typically run at. The F135 has always been run at 190 kN but it can go as far as 210 kN. I wouldn't be surprised if the WS-15 can be pushed up to 200 kN too. In fact I fully expect a "WS-15B" to be under development that would probably run around that ballpark. Probably as an interim engine for some next-gen programs
Last edited:
You know, just a dozen pages back a PPT is already there showing the development for a 2400K TIT engine with an AB thrust of around 198KN has already started. Very similar to what you would expect for a further development of the WS15 base architecture.
Yes I saw, interestingly those are similar numbers to our American ACE/VCE designs with a 2400 Kelvin inlet temp and around 45,000 lbf wet thrust. I wonder though if that's actually the ACE core that already is alleged to exist or a separate development entirely. Man I wish the Chinese MIC was just a bit more transparent.
Also I think everyone here is too focused on minute details and missing the broader picture here. The WS-19 isn't just a new Chinese medium-thrust turbofan, it represents for China a new age of aeroengine manufacturing where it can and is reliably cranking out competitive engines in a quick timeframe (what was it? 5 years for the WS-19 I think?), compared to the mess that was the WS-10 if anyone remembers that time. Think about this. You've now got an aeroengine industry that can produce a medium-weight turbofan with a wet thrust of over 110 kN and a TIT of around 1950-2100 Kelvin in around 5 years. How is everyone not seeing just how big of an achievement this is? The real achievement here isn't the WS-19 (though, yes; the engine itself is very impressive) but the actual state of the aeroengine industry currently.
And remember, these engines aren't just standalone projects. Every new engine itself has massive potential for growth on its own, you can expect consistent improvements on this design in the near-future; it's entirely possible (I would argue likely) we'll see a "WS-19B" or other derivatives that'll reach 120 kN and higher with perhaps even higher TIT, and likely higher TBO too. It happened with the WS-10 and the WS-15 and the WS-13, why would the WS-19 be any different? It helps to think of these machines not as standalone projects but with a much broader engineering lens.
And remember, these engines aren't just standalone projects. Every new engine itself has massive potential for growth on its own, you can expect consistent improvements on this design in the near-future; it's entirely possible (I would argue likely) we'll see a "WS-19B" or other derivatives that'll reach 120 kN and higher with perhaps even higher TIT, and likely higher TBO too. It happened with the WS-10 and the WS-15 and the WS-13, why would the WS-19 be any different? It helps to think of these machines not as standalone projects but with a much broader engineering lens.
Last edited:
Considering the fact that J-11B had to sit in the tarmac with no engines just 15 years and that China is still working on reliable light thrust alternative for L-15, you guys are sounding like a bunch of spoiled brats. If I were your parent I’d spank you.
one thing to consider when we talk about engines is that the development cycle takes longer. I takes longer for new material to qualify for supply chain. As such, you can't consider timeline the same way would with electronics like AESA radar. 15 years is a long time for changes in radar technology (at least in today's pace of evolution). For engines, in 15 years, you may get 10-15% improvement in fuel efficiency for engine of same thrust.
So, I think it's really unhelpful to say something like oh F-135 had this number back 10 or 15 years ago.
The question is whether the specs in those photos are competitive. And the truth is that whatever that engine is, is quite competitive. So, I'm personally skeptical that WS-19 actually achieved those levels. So, let's wait and see.
So, I think it's really unhelpful to say something like oh F-135 had this number back 10 or 15 years ago.
The question is whether the specs in those photos are competitive. And the truth is that whatever that engine is, is quite competitive. So, I'm personally skeptical that WS-19 actually achieved those levels. So, let's wait and see.
WS-19 thrust and TWR specifically mentioned by the chief designer itself back in 2022.
10+tons thrust with 10 TWR and a competitive machine in this category class Engines.. this is for base variant.
chief designer also mentioned, we are the first Aero Engine manufacturer in mainland to digitalized the development process of turbofan engine. this help us to reduce development cycle by 25% and increase the efficiency of machine.
as you said, ''whatever that engine is, will be a quite competitive''
the biggest takeaway from WS-19 project is, for the first time traditional Aero engine manufacturers from China didn't participate in this program like Shenyang/Liming and Xian.
this WS-19 machine entirely developed by Southern China institutes like AECC Guiyang and AECC Sichuan. they effectively created an another world class Engine entity in mainland.