2025 Israel - Iranian conflict

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
There is no moderate or secular without also being western worshippers. That doesn't exist in a country like Iran. Islamism is not just about religiousity in a country like Iran, its also political. You can't kill the hardliners and bring moderates into power. When hatred is created, it only creates more extremism, more motivation for revenge.

After getting hit like this, can self-respecting Iranians say, yes, let's worship the west more. Nope. Anyone moderate will be sidelined as traitors. Even more hardliners will gain power.
Look at Lebanon, seems to be working out with Hezbollah being slowly ejected from political apparatus and disarmament. This would be unthinkable even a year ago.

You can't chant death to America if you get hit by a laser guided bomb.
 

tamsen_ikard

Senior Member
Registered Member
Look at Lebanon, seems to be working out with Hezbollah being slowly ejected from political apparatus and disarmament. This would be unthinkable even a year ago.

You can't chant death to America if you get hit by a laser guided bomb.
Lebanon is 50% Christian, plus a huge portion sunni while hazbollah is Shia. They never had control over the whole population. Yes, they had huge influence due to their military power, but that power got degraded. But I won't count out hezbollah yet. They will come back ever stronger in a few years of rebuilding.
 

Michael90

Junior Member
Registered Member
There is no way there can be proper democracy in Iran now. After this crisis, it will get even more hardline anti-west leadership, or it will break up into pieces due to fighting by various ethnic groups. Azeris, kurds, Arabs and Persians will not be under one country unless there is a strong unified theme to hold them together. That strong unified theme is the Shia Islamic theocracy. Without this, Iran is gone as a nation.
Nah, you are wrong. Iran was still a strong United country even before the current isalnists Mullah hijacked the student led revolution to seize power. So all this fears of the country collapsing are unfounded and sounds more like the Mullahs regime propaganda slogans saying without them there will be no Iran. Lol much like the Kim family try to make its people believe without the Kim family leadership there will be no North Korea or like some propaganda want us to believe without Putin there will be no Russia? Lol
 
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talonn

Junior Member
Registered Member
What do u guys expected Iran to do? Singlehandedly fight all the Major non-NATO allies in the area to get to Israel?
I am no expert in this matter. But maybe don't go solo in everything, be more open and get more 'allies'? They are even not in good terms with close neighbour like Pakistan, which cause big boys like China to be hesitant in lending support. Their only big bro Russia are unreliable and they're too busy with ukraine business.
 

AndrewJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Rafale is still a one of the world's premiere 4th gen fighter jets, their performance shouldn't be based on the screw ups of poorly trained Indian pilots. And for what its worth, France maintained a decades long operation in Mali with a total of 53 KIA, Wagner in that one ambush last year lost 80 KIA in a single day.

The point is talking of the toll inflicted upon Ukrainians in the context of the global East and West struggle is moot, since Ukraine before the war was a corrupt wasteland with a lower per capita GDP than Iraq. Russia, in supposedly wiping out half of the country's male population, has been isolated from many of the world's major economies outside of China and India, and lost vast quantities of its stockpiled weaponry and thousands of experienced troops. Meanwhile, most of Western Europe outside of some economic fallout, remains unaffected, so I don't think its an achievement worth boasting of.

More to the topic at hand, which is China and its allies, many here can in fact claim that the US still has many advanced nation on its side. Whereas if this was WW1, China would essentially be a Germany saddled with two Austrias.

Do you remember Korean War? :rolleyes:

They are even not in good terms with close neighbour like Pakistan, which cause big boys like China to be hesitant in lending support.

Iran's leadership are as naive as kindergarten kids. They're totally infiltrated. Once China sends some aid, they'll immediately be transferred to Israel & US. China doesn't trust Irani government. Too unreliable.
 
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texx1

Junior Member
They purposefully kept this one alive didn't they

Israel probably considers him as a moderating influence on Iranian hardliners. The previous retaliating attacks he ordered were largely ineffective and mostly for show. He's okay with renegotiating with Trump despite Trump tore up the previous nuclear deal. He is also not too keen on nuclear weapons since he issued a fatwa banning nuclear weapons.

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Iran’s supreme leader must revoke a fatwa banning the development of nuclear weapons if the regime is to survive, his top military commanders have said.

In an extraordinary intervention by leaders of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was told that Iran must have nuclear weapons to face down “existential threats” from the West.

The fatwa – a religious ruling – was first mentioned at an International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) meeting in 2005. In it, Khamenei insisted that such weapons were “absolutely haram”, or forbidden by Islam.
 

tamsen_ikard

Senior Member
Registered Member
Nah, you are wrong. Iran was still a strong United country even before the current isalnists Mullah hijacked the student led revolhtion to seize power. So all this fears of the country collapsing are unfounded and sounds more like the Mullahs regime propaganda slogans saying without them there will be no Iran. Lol much like the Kim family try to make its people believe without the Kim family leadership there will be no North Korea or without Putin there will be no Russia as we know it? Lol
Before the Islamists it was a monarchy that kept going for many centuries. There is no monarchy to hold them together now. So they need a new ideology. Shia based Islamic nationhood provided that glue. Otherwise, there is no reason for Azeris, kurds, balochs and Arabs to stay under one unified country dominated by just 50% Persians.
 

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
I felt like after Israel/US got rid of one of their roadblock, Iran. U.S and its allies will set their sights on China next. Possible preemptive strike in the next several years? I hope China is ready for the possible scenario.

Yeah basically.

Not yet. They still need get rid of Russia first, and thats not likely happening anytime soon, or ever. Without Russia neutralized, they can only strike china from the west PAC region and would not be able to encircle China. And you bet china is expecting that. They've been expecting it for a long time, ever since 1997 Taiwan strait crisis.

The west may count on India also attacking China from the west, but given India's current debacle and the mountainous terrain, that not likely to be effective.

US bases in west pac, and Japan are the main belligerents. ASEAN will not intervene. Phillipines can try, lol but without US bases, wtf do they have?
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
First of all India is just plain incompetent and not really menacing, not comparable with israel. Pakistan had the advantage from the start with advanced chinese and western weaponry and an competent air command.
India isn't as incompetent as it looks. It defeated Pakistan multiple times in the past while inflicting massive conventional losses on the battlefield.

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Yet Pakistan was able to reform and nobody in Pakistan ever thought of being a rat. They were only defeated on the physical battlefield, not the spiritual battlefield. The physical battlefield is temporary. The spiritual battlefield is much less temporary.
 
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