The Kashmir conflict 2025.

gaussgun

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Here's the translated original source of the China Space News article that's been quoted in various places.
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Revelations from the India-Pakistan Aerial Conflict
Source: China Space News | Date: May 13, 2025

Recently, India and Pakistan engaged in a brief but intense military clash, reigniting global attention on the evolution of modern warfare. Observing the performance of both militaries—along with insights from recent localized conflicts worldwide—reveals a key trend: the shift from traditional firepower-centric confrontations to a more systemized, intelligent, and asymmetric form of warfare.

In modern warfare, stand-off strikes—attacks launched from outside enemy defensive ranges—have become increasingly crucial. These tactics aim to minimize risk to one’s own forces and rely heavily on the seamless integration of intelligence, command, and strike capabilities. Specifically in air combat, traditional dogfighting within visual range is no longer the dominant mode of engagement. Instead, the outcome now hinges on the integrated performance of aircraft, radar, and missile systems.

Traditionally, air combat followed an "A-shoots-A-guides" model: a fighter jet independently searches for, tracks, and engages enemy aircraft, guiding the missile until impact. With technological advances, some air forces have adopted "A-shoots-B-guides" capabilities—where one aircraft fires a missile and another provides mid-course guidance. In this recent conflict, the Pakistan Air Force demonstrated a more advanced system: "A-locks, B-shoots, C-guides". In this model, an integrated air-ground defense system first locks onto the enemy, transmitting targeting data to airborne platforms like fighter jets. These fighters then launch missiles from distances exceeding 100 km. Airborne early warning aircraft or other fighters continue to guide the missiles until they strike their targets. This "detect first, fire first" model of beyond-visual-range engagement transforms air combat into information warfare, fundamentally overturning traditional air combat doctrines.

From another perspective, some countries’ modernization paths overly prioritize equipment procurement at the expense of system integration. Their arsenals include a mix of aircraft, early warning planes, and air defense systems from various nations—each with different specifications. Integrating these into a single cohesive system is fraught with difficulties. India, for example, has repeatedly reported data link compatibility issues between its early warning aircraft, ground-based radars, and fighters. In modern air combat, even a one-second delay in situational awareness can cost an aircraft.

Observers believe Pakistan has established a preliminary air-ground integrated combat system, which allowed it to suppress India’s numerical air superiority using low-cost, high-precision strikes. Unless India accelerates efforts toward indigenous equipment development, standardized data links, and improvements in training and logistics, it risks falling further behind in future systemic warfare.

Under this systemic combat framework, drones are expected to play a larger role in air warfare. For instance, with comprehensive intelligence support, drones can exploit blind spots in traditional air defense by flying at low or ultra-low altitudes, transmitting real-time images and videos, and attacking ground infrastructure like runways and hangars under operator control. Additionally, drones could serve as aerial platforms for air-to-air missile launches, increasing strike range and enhancing the density and effectiveness of firepower.

In modern warfare—including air combat—there is no longer a single "silver bullet" or wonder weapon. Pure hardware superiority is no longer enough to determine the outcome of battles. Victory lies in the deep integration of intelligence, command, firepower, and electronic systems.

Source: WeChat Official Account of China Space News
Written by: Lin Xi
Edited by: Jin Qing
 

kursed

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J10C vs Rafale was not a one vs one fight, different systems (not just AWACs) were picking different targets, that were sent up the kill chain via the DL. J10C was the best executor because of 'long-stick', but was getting information from all other systems in the air at that time.
 

crazyinsane105

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Hi,
so what’s the best and probably asap solution for IAF against the PAF jets,
while remaining in their own territory is Russian R37-M and for this they can
send their 18/24 MKI urgently to Russia to arm them with Su35 type radar and
then plug in R37M will it work I don’t know but this is the best solution to have
it may be within 6 months or so until unless uncle SAM is happy to deliver F35
but obviously that will take more time
another solution is France probably upgrading Rafale to F4/5 standards they might
work able but you indian have to give arm and leg for this upgrades
thank you
Russia doesn’t have significant quantities of R-37M to spare. Unlikely they will part ways with their current stockpile towards a conflict they care less about.
 

crazyinsane105

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This is a strange thing to say. Pakistan only has so many resource for military. It is clearly better to spend that money on the Air Force than air defense. When you have control of your own air space, the most that your adversary can do is lob missiles and drones over. That does limited damage. Nytimes report pretty much showed that both military overstated their impact on the opposing military bases. Pakistan bases had a few more crates & damaged buildings, but nothing that prevent flight operations.

In fact given that Pakistan has limited resources, it was probably conserving missiles against most incoming attacks.
One or two more batteries of HQ-9 definitely won’t hurt though. But agreed that long range missiles and drones cause very limited damage (unless targeting a large ammo dump, which didn’t happen in this conflict)
 

tamsen_ikard

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This is a strange thing to say. Pakistan only has so many resource for military. It is clearly better to spend that money on the Air Force than air defense. When you have control of your own air space, the most that your adversary can do is lob missiles and drones over. That does limited damage. Nytimes report pretty much showed that both military overstated their impact on the opposing military bases. Pakistan bases had a few more crates & damaged buildings, but nothing that prevent flight operations.

In fact given that Pakistan has limited resources, it was probably conserving missiles against most incoming attacks.
Using missiles and drones is pretty much the entire strategy of China with rocket force. China does not expect to have air superiority against US and it's allies. That's why it wants to use missiles and drones.

With enough missiles India can do big damage to Pakistan's important bases and other installations.

So, even if Pakistan cannot spend more money on air defense. It needs to spend money on more offensive missiles so that even if India can destroy pakistani targets, Pakistan can do equal or even greater damage.
 

sunnymaxi

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Using missiles and drones is pretty much the entire strategy of China with rocket force. China does not expect to have air superiority against US and it's allies. That's why it wants to use missiles and drones.
this strategy has been outdated.

in first island chain its done and dusted and second island chain. PLAAF can easily fight with current level of tech. obviously you have home advantage with backing of PLARF and drones.

PLAAF have better AWACS system. next generation entire line up have showed up. KJ-700/KJ-600/KJ-3000
PLAAF have more or less same number of AESA radar equipped fighter jets as USA in the world.. numbers keep increasing
 

tphuang

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One or two more batteries of HQ-9 definitely won’t hurt though. But agreed that long range missiles and drones cause very limited damage (unless targeting a large ammo dump, which didn’t happen in this conflict)
How much money do you think Pakistan has?

Using missiles and drones is pretty much the entire strategy of China with rocket force. China does not expect to have air superiority against US and it's allies. That's why it wants to use missiles and drones.

With enough missiles India can do big damage to Pakistan's important bases and other installations.

So, even if Pakistan cannot spend more money on air defense. It needs to spend money on more offensive missiles so that even if India can destroy pakistani targets, Pakistan can do equal or even greater damage.
The first part is entirely untrue.

India can do some damage against Pakistani bases, but just lobbing missiles over has limitations on sustained damage. This is the case unless You start having a more robust manufacturing base.

Which then brings to the next question of SEAD and ground attacks.

Does Pakistan have the capability to suppress Indian GBAD system and also provide escort for attacking aircraft looking to drop PGMs against Indian military bases that's a little further in. I'd have a hard time thinking they do just based on the size of PAF vs Indian military.

So until PAF can find a way to penetrate Indian air defense, it's best strategy is probably the one that it employed recently.
 

Observer1

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Perhaps Pakistan should invest more in an offensive deterrence since its ability for defense will always be limited. If you can inflict considerable damage on the other side (equal or more) it may deter such action on yourself.

Pakistan's tactical missile options seem really weak. It has no supersonic cruise missiles, no hypersonic glide vehicles for deep strikes. Some 600KM range subsonic cruise missiles exist but probably won't survive Indian ADS. Their ballistic missiles also seem outdated.

This plus cheap saturation kamikaze drones.
 

tamsen_ikard

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Registered Member
How much money do you think Pakistan has?


The first part is entirely untrue.

India can do some damage against Pakistani bases, but just lobbing missiles over has limitations on sustained damage. This is the case unless You start having a more robust manufacturing base.

Which then brings to the next question of SEAD and ground attacks.

Does Pakistan have the capability to suppress Indian GBAD system and also provide escort for attacking aircraft looking to drop PGMs against Indian military bases that's a little further in. I'd have a hard time thinking they do just based on the size of PAF vs Indian military.

So until PAF can find a way to penetrate Indian air defense, it's best strategy is probably the one that it employed recently.

China's original strategy was A2/AD using missiles, I remember 15 years ago, China promoted their carrier killer missiles especially DF-21D. They also focused heavily on hitting taiwan with short range ballistic missiles. So, there is no mistake that China depended heavily on the rocket force back then. All the western think tanks could talk about was how China's air force and navy was weak and the main threat was the carrier killer missiles.

Now ofcourse China has much better air and naval force. But I would say China still relies heavily on A2/AD strategy with rocket force. Cause China's stealth fighter jet count is still much lower than US. 800 F-35/F-22 vs 350 J-20 is still lopsided against China. When you combine that with F-35 numbers from Korea, Japan and Australia it becomes even more difficult.

Yes, China is slowly catching up and slowly changing their doctrine to rely more on the air force. That's why we started seeing PLAAF flybys around Taiwan. But relying on Ground based missiles and long range Air launched missiles with H6 bombers is still China's biggest strategic advantage compared to slugging it out with fighters for Air superiority.

If relying missiles is not an effective strategy for India, its also not an effective strategy for China. But China is pursuing it, which shows that they see value in it.
 

Tomboy

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Cause China's stealth fighter jet count is still much lower than US. 800 F-35/F-22 vs 350 J-20 is still lopsided against China. When you combine that with F-35 numbers from Korea, Japan and Australia it becomes even more difficult.
I think your underestimating J-20 numbers and also US cannot have it's entire airforce/navy and also the marine aviation diverted to SCS. Just like how it's not realistic that the US putting it's entire navy here as well
 
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