What the Heck?! Thread

Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by TerraN_EmpirE, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. PanAsian
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    PanAsian Senior Member

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    The cooling off period is there for good reason. Making exceptions is tantamount to breaking these checks and balances built into US governance infrastructure, the making of many a third world dictatorship/authoritarian government. Similarly the despicable move reducing the power of the governor's office in North Carolina by Republicans after they lost the office's election is politicized corruption of governance infrastructure and an unmistakable move towards a one party system.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ips-some-democratic-governors-power/95555182/
     
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  2. Jura
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    Jura Senior Member

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    several years ago I visited a museum of torture in a nearby town, not a commercial place ... in the basement where people (including "witches" at times) had been tortured for about three hundred years ... I knew what it would be about, but still I almost fainted when after I had left (one of the problems was I was alone inside)
    kwaigonegin come here and we go there :)
     
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  3. kwaigonegin
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    kwaigonegin Senior Member

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    Praque is still on my bucket list but the exchange rate favors the euro. I'll be really poor there lol.
     
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  4. Jura
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    Jura Senior Member

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    I guess you'd need two grand to come here for a week and not to stay in hostel :)
     
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  5. Jura
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    Jura Senior Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    now "Incoming National Security Advisor Michael Flynn issued a ringing endorsement today of American exceptionalism and declared, “we have always been the indispensable nation and we always will be.” ..." wow
    Flynn Appears To Hint At Cutting NSC Staff; Rice Says Size Matters Less
    source is BreakingDefense http://breakingdefense.com/2017/01/...utting-nsc-staff-rice-says-size-matters-less/
     
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  6. PanAsian
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    PanAsian Senior Member

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    Maybe that's how a particular faction of Japan's elite feels, such as Abe's ilk who have direct ties to architects of and key participants in Imperial Japanese aggression. Most Japanese do not feel that way. China, South Korea, and other victimized countries should offer clear goals for Japan to meet regarding owning up to its past aggression so everyone can move forward with friendlier relations in mind. Dragging things out has its limits and the potential negative consequences for everyone are significant.

    It is important to remember that Japan was faced with the same existential threat as other Asian countries and peoples in the form of Western invasion and colonialism. Japan deserves credit for succeeding in making painful reforms to modernize and stand up for itself, its mistake was in also adopting the colonizer practice with its inherent aggression, prejudice, and oppression against others. As the junior newcomer and sole non-European society among the powers that be facing the tides of that era Japan was in a precarious position even after modernizing and unfortunately chose to turn on those who faced the same fate it had just saved itself from.

    Current world developments suggest that the international system is continuing, with significant resistance, to emerge from the shadow of the colonial era. Japan has not been able to fully engage with this process because it is both a willing participant in and subject to imposed ingrained colonial era practices. As China becomes more of a powerful driver rather than just a factor in the international system’s development beyond colonial era practices, and being the most powerful victim of the maximum magnitude of Imperial Japanese aggression, it should set an example by offering a vision for itself and Japan to realize that fully recognizes that period in history for posterity and empowers the two to move forward to friendlier relations and more fully engaging in the international system's changes.
     
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  7. taxiya
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    taxiya Senior Member
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    No objection to anything you said here.

    But my take is rather bleak (or realistic IMO). That is NO ONE will sincerely regret and amend their wrong past without a total defeat and INITIAL forced/imposed admission of their wrong past. I admire the often talked about German sincerity compared to Japan. BUT only to a point. Without occupation by victim countries such as France and Soviet Union, I expect Germany would not have been much better than Japan. Germany could have been easily and happily be a good buddy with US while stubbornly refusing to accept its guilt towards anyone else. The French and Soviet occupation forced Germany to face up its guilt to all victimized countries on European continent.

    History can not be "what-ifed", we would never know, but I would not automatically assume something (even good ones) is a given when there is a condition that can make big differences.

    What happened in the past and more importantly what is happening today will shape the future. On this account, Japan is loosing the future by its very own act. Nobody can offer anything if Japan does not want to take it. The track record of Japanese ruling class does prove that with a few exceptions (村山富市 and 河野洋平). Abe is just going further away than anyone else has.
     
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  8. manqiangrexue
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    manqiangrexue Junior Member

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    First of all, China's goals for Japan are very clear. 1. Own up to what was done in WWII instead of changing textbooks to hide them (only from Japan's own children, making them seem ignorant in the world). 2. Stop returning to a shrine to honor war criminals; if you can't stop returning to a shrine that you say honors all of Japan's warriors through time, then take the war criminals out. It's really not that complicated.

    Secondly, how is it China's responsibility to set an example for Japan to welcome friendlier relations in the future??? That is the responsibility of the victim??? To the criminal that doesn't even recognize his crimes?? I understand what you are saying; China could be the bigger man because it is so powerful and Japan is in such a sullen state, but never is it the responsibility of the victim to try to bury the hatchet and seek friendly relations with the perpetrator, who won't even admit to a crime.

    Japan, at this point, is too deep into a corner to come out and move freely.

    1. It feels so vulnerable and threatened by China because of China's rising strength and Japan's relative and increasing weakness. It is threatened by China's existence and it is haunted by its own past. "Who wouldn't want to destroy me after what I'd done to them? I can only escape this by keeping them weak." The only way for China to mitigate this would be to become weaker, which, I think we all know, is a thought for laughing only.

    2. Japan is so covered in shame from what had happened since WWII. All those war crimes, still defeated. Was the shining star of Asia, head and shoulders above everyone else, now, a declining economy that grovels for protection from the neighbor it looked down upon the most. From world power to militarily colonized. The, from rising economy to gutted by its own master. Japan's just in such a bad place, it doesn't want to open up. Imagine if you got mugged, raped by another man, your car stolen, fired from your job, parents died in building crash, dumped by your wife, who took your house and kids, all in the last 3 days. You'd probably just want to lie in bed staring at the ceiling rather than go out there fixing things.

    3. It is militarily colonized by the US. The US doesn't want war between China and Japan but certainly doesn't want to see them hugging like buddies either, because that would de-legitimize America's military presence in Japan. Everyone says it's to defend against North Korea, but we all know, the second China's military is deemed no longer a threat to Japan, that's when every Japanese wants the US military out, not that they could manage it...
     
    #2408 manqiangrexue, Jan 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  9. B.I.B.
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    B.I.B. Junior Member

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    IMO a grudgingly given apology, is no apology at all.

    Only a handful of Germans engaged in Himmlers genocidal policies were ever punished.
     
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  10. taxiya
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    taxiya Senior Member
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    Agreed in principle. But to clarify, in case of Germany, I can't say the apology is not sincere just because it was forced upon them at the beginning. They still could be sincere by plain logic, and by my own observation they really are sincere. I have a Germany friend, she told me about organized school visit to the death camps. She also took me to the Holocaust monument in Berlin at her initiation (I avoided the whole WWII thing to not to embarrass her). I can not say she represent all Germans, but she is the only German I know in person and she represents that 100% Germans in my knowledge.

    When I said the force is needed, I meant it is a must to start the whole realization and taking on guilt process, the force is not necessary for ever. People can change, but force is needed to stop them continuing the wrong, to face the facts, after those are forced on them, people with humanity conscience still inside them will be able to move on their own. To prove that they have departed from their past, the force need to be removed and see the doing afterwards.

    All I was saying is that, both countries needed that hard start to cut off their past, Germany got it (thanks to French and Soviet) but Japan did not (thanks to the sole US occupation). So now we are looking at two opposite examples.
     
    #2410 taxiya, Jan 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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