055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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steve_rolfe

Junior Member
Well, i think the 055 is really the Destroyer/Cruiser type the PLAN had always wanted, but they had to do with the smaller 052C/D classes upto now, due to the Chinese having to catch up with Gas Turbine engine technology, and being able to produce a powerful enough engine for the propulsion of a 10,000 tonne+ warship.
I believe this has been discussed several times here before! :)
 

Jeff Head

General
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The Chinese are building large task for vessels.

Both for aircraft carrier strike groups and for larger amphibious assault groups.

Both groups need significant protection that can be coordinate by large and capable command defense vessels.

IMHO the Type 055 is the PLAN's versiio of he US Ticonderoga class AEGIS cruisers of the US Navy, but with particular PLAN twists.

These ships can carry more missiles. These ships will divide through quad packing the type of missiles they carry to help establish clear zones of defense. But these ships also have sophisticated communication and control capabilities that allow it to control the defense of the entire carrier or amphibious group should any type of serious saturation attack develop from multiple aixis.

So, I would believe in very large groups you will find one or two Type 055s, and they will be able to utilize a PLAN version for cooperative engagement to control the missiles from Type 052C/Ds and from Type 054As in defense of the group.

But they will do it according to th doctrines the PLAN develops for its policies and national interests.

Out sde of th SU, the UK (which had diminished to only having 1-2 groups at a time they need to defen, the perhaps the Japanese and the Koreans (which also have a very limited number of groups to defend) you see no nation capable of developing them like the Chinese are now doing outside of the US>

The Russians themselves, despite all of their bristling weapons are weak in the area.

Watch for the Chinese to next include the sub-surface defense category (and absolutely critical category for any group) into their defense management systems as we are just hearing about in the US Navy...though in truth the US Navy has been doing it for year.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Well, i think the 055 is really the Destroyer/Cruiser type the PLAN had always wanted, but they had to do with the smaller 052C/D classes upto now, due to the Chinese having to catch up with Gas Turbine engine technology, and being able to produce a powerful enough engine for the propulsion of a 10,000 tonne+ warship.
Not really. The PLAN chose to build a 7,000 ton ship because they wanted to build a 7,000 ton ship. They were not limited in any way by engine technology. They were likely only limited by shipbuilding experience, or doctrine/perceived need, or a combination of both. The 052C uses the DN-80 imported from the Ukraine. If they had wanted to build a 10 or even 12,000 ton ship, they would simply have imported and installed four DN-80s per ship instead of two. This would be the rough equivalent of the four QC-280s per 055 that we (likely) have presently.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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Alrighty, so over the last few days variations of this latest satellite picture of JNCX shipyard has emerged, and is a more up to date photo compared to what we've had previously. I don't think it is up to date to the current present, but based on my estimates it was probably taken within the last two weeks or so. Google Earth I don't think has been updated yet with this (assuming it will be eventually used to update GE), so right now we only have these screen capture pictures to work with. But they're still pretty good.

It's been posted on CDF already, but not here, and now that I have a bit of time I'd like to offer my interpretations and analysis of this juicy piece of IMINT.

First of all, is the original picture:
FiHjLR8.jpg


Second, is the original picture with my annotations, which I will refer to in the rest of this post:
GFBiXKY.jpg


To explain these annotations:

In green:
-Bow: I believe is the bow section of 055 unit 1. Note, this bow section is not fully complete as I believe the most immediate bow section has not been installed when this picture was taken.
-Stern: I believe is the stern and amidships section of 055 unit 1
-Extra: I believe this is a module for 055 unit 2 (I'll explain more on this later)

In red:
-I have "Ignore 1" and "Ignore 2" -- these are merged together overlays of the Bow and Stern sections, not done by me but part of the original picture. They are useful for providing a rough guide to how big 055 might be compared to the 052D, but unfortunately whoever stitched them together added a few extra pixels between the sections so it is just a little bit larger than it actually is.

In yellow, near the bottom:
-I've circled a part of the basin entry area, called "Basin Width". This will come into play when we consider the 055's length.


So, obviously the first thing this photo allows us to do is to try and finally estimate 055's length with virtually all the modules finally here. There are a few ways of doing it, even though the latest Google Earth imagery is not up to date.
That is by measuring certain known fixed quantities on Google Earth, and comparing the ratio between those lengths with the 055 sections.

The most accurate way at this point is to compare the Bow section and Stern section separately and add them together for an estimate.
In my case, I'm going to use the "Basin Width" as one fixed quantity, and the 052D's length as another fixed quantity, both of which can be measured by anyone on Google Earth right now.
Basin Width I get is consistently about 39.7m after repeated measures.
052D's length I get is consistently 156.6m after repeated measures.

The next step is to consider the ratio of the reference lengths to the 055 section lengths, which can be done via pixel measurements or just using a ruler on the screen. Let's call it "Section to reference length ratio, or "section screen size/reference length screen size".
Consistency is key.

Now, a bit of maths, the basic formula I'm using is:
055 estimated total length = (Bow section to reference length ratio) x reference length + (Stern section to reference length ratio) x reference length

I will repeat those measures using both the Basin width length as well as the 052D length, to get two measures using two different reference lengths.

Using basin width length:
055 estimated total length = (1.74) x 39.7m + (2.69) x 39.7m = 175.8m

Using 052D length:
055 estimated total length = (0.44) x 156.6m + (0.68) x 156.6m = 175.4m

So I think the two measurements are pretty close, but of course this also needs to account for some error as the low resolution of the picture means we're dealing with an uncertainty, let's say of +/- 2m or 3m.

But this doesn't mean the total length of 055 is "only" ~175m, because as I mentioned before the bow section is definitely incomplete, and extending it forwards a little, I think it is quite reasonable to think that it would add on another 2m-3m of length at least, if not 5m or more.

So I think the total length of 055 once everything comes together will likely be very close to 180m, either approaching it, near it, or even possibly slightly over it.


One can also measure the beam of the modules as well using the same method, and I end up with a beam of about 20.5m or 20.7m, or somewhere in between.
For a ship ~180m long, and a beam about 20.5m, considering the geometry of the 055 and the upper superstructures (compared to previous generations of ships), at this stage I would throw out that it's full displacement will probably be between 12,500 tons to 13,000 tons, with a standard displacement of slightly over 11,000 tons.


Finally, one can also see that there is an "Extra" module that I indicated in my second picture. I believe we have seen pictures of this extra module by recent pictures taken on the ground, and it has been suggested that it may be for 055 unit 2 (because from the ground we can see it has the same geometry of previous 055 modules for about the amidships section).
At the time I wasn't very sure if that module was for 055 unit 2 or simply another module for 055 unit 1, however now that we have this satellite picture, I do think that module is almost definitely for 055 unit 2, because it almost definitely isn't for 055 unit 1 -- if it is for 055 unit 1 then it would mean the 055 class as a ship would be nearly 200m long! And I don't think anyone believes that is the case!


In either case, I'm sure we will get more pictures on the ground and from space and in the air even, in coming months, but at this stage I think we can finally get a rough estimate of just how long this ship will probably be.


The next questions we should be looking to answer, are just how many VLS 055 has, the geometry of the topside structures, the kinds of radar it uses (especially on the aft mast, if there is one at all), and also of course what will be of the "step platform" that we saw on the mock up and what, if any indication that the white/vs grey paint has or if it is inconsequential.
 
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cool post; I wish you you're right :)
...

For a ship ~180m long, and a beam about 20.5m, ..., with a standard displacement of slightly over 11,000 tons.

...
and I have a dumb question (sorry if it's been addressed before here, I only recently began looking at Type 055):
I've read (in a Polish naval journal back from 2014) Type 052Ds are assembled from nine hull segments (one of the reasons of so fast build up); is a similar procedure used for Type 055 and if so, with how many segments?
 
you may recall
Oct 20, 2016
Obviously we do not know that for 055 (and I'm not sure if the 052D's numbers are solid either) ... crew size ...
as for Type 052D I now noticed the argument in a Polish naval journal in support of 280 crew members, and this argument was based on the numbers/types of rescue craft on board

(I hope now the Chinese team here will not jump at me again! I'm not saying a Chinese warship will founder or nothing)
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
If the length is anywhere close to 180m, then the displacement is definitely going to be in the range of 12-13kt full. Also, the forward VLS is almost certainly going to be a 2x4 VLS module arrangement, with the rear bank still in question. A crew of 280 for this kind of ship is achievable with some degree of automation. That step platform is going to be there. I will take a wager on it.
 

mangjitok

New Member
Registered Member
How many Type 055 under construction 3?
it's one under construction. the two other, which bltizo mark as"ignore 1" and "ignore 2" was (combined the bow and stern section without extra section) put there both side of 52d for compare in attemp for measuring the length.
 
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