Trade War with China

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Because those Judeo-Christian nut cases still believes that they are "God's chosen children" to rule the world. That's what happen when one don't have a significant 5,000 year history and culture of civilization. You end up buying into the non proven nonsense to make one self as important and legit in world history.

Let's just say they and the most extreme Islamic fundamentalist deserve each other. What piss me off is they want to pull China into their craziness.
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is next-level delusion.

WSJ:
White House Plans to Escalate Trade Pressure on China
U.S. soon will detail which products are on $100 billion list of goods subject to tariffs; Treasury seeks to block Chinese tech investment in U.S.

By Bob Davis and Lingling Wei
Updated April 12, 2018 7:30 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON—The Trump White House, confident that its hard-line strategy is succeeding, is planning to ratchet up the pressure on China by focusing on new tariffs and threatening to block Chinese technology investment in the U.S., according to officials familiar with the strategy.

The additional moves come as President Donald Trump has told his senior aides to
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, a move that would reverse a Trump campaign promise and further challenge China, which isn’t part of the trade pact.

For its part, China is looking to line up other countries against the U.S., Chinese officials said—especially in Europe, whose companies could benefit should China react to the stepped up pressure by retaliating against the U.S. Beijing has already responded to early volleys from Washington in the trade conflict
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.

Administration officials familiar with the U.S. strategy say that the U.S. trade representative, as early as next week, will detail which products are on the list of $100 billion in Chinese goods subject to 25% import tariffs. The initial hit list of $50 billion in Chinese imports didn’t include some consumer staples such as clothing, mobile phones or shoes, to minimize consumer impact and limit domestic criticism. But trade experts say the sheer size of the expansion of the hit list makes the inclusion of consumer goods inevitable.

At the same time, the Treasury Department is crafting sharp prohibitions on Chinese investment in advanced U.S. technology, whether by acquisition, joint ventures, licensing or any other arrangement, according to a senior administration official. The agency is targeting China’s subsidization of domestic industries to turn them into so-called technology national champions, the official said.

The administration is debating whether to make the investment restrictions permanent, even if China changes its industrial policies, the official said. The restrictions then could be used to make sure China carries out pledges and would warn other countries not to mimic Chinese behavior. The Treasury is expected to devise a plan by early June.

The actions come as administration officials argue the Chinese are already bending to the U.S.’s will. They point to a speech on Tuesday by Chinese President Xi Jinping, who promised to roll out measures this year to lower tariffs on imported cars and to ease foreign ownership restrictions on auto makers in China.

“It was the most conciliatory thing we’ve heard since the whole discussion began,” said a White House official. “Up to then, it was mean, nasty, cruel name-calling.”


Business groups in Washington, D.C., have been lobbying hard, telling the White House that tariffs are counterproductive. But administration officials have come to the opposite conclusion: They believe the threats are working. “China basically surrendered [with the Xi speech] and he [Trump] is probably going to put even more pressure on them before he accepts whatever their bottom line becomes,” said a person familiar with White House views.

Publicly, Chinese officials deny they are bending to Washington’s pressure, but privately, they acknowledge that the trade threats are leading them to accelerate their plans to liberalize.

Currently Beijing levies a 25% import tariff on vehicles, compared with the U.S. 2.5% tariff—an imbalance President Trump has repeatedly attacked, even though the U.S. has its own 25% tariffs on pickup trucks.

Beijing also requires foreign car makers to enter into a 50%-50% partnership with Chinese companies to set up plants. Chinese officials said the auto tariff would be reduced and the ownership cap would be lifted gradually, adding they might lift the cap within three to five years.

While that might seem slow to U.S. officials, such a timetable would require Beijing to take on powerful local interests, including state-owned firms. “Pressure from the U.S. is providing an impetus to the need for change,” said a Chinese official.

Resistance to such change was on display at a closed-door panel discussion Tuesday at the high-level Boao Forum, where politicians mingle with business leaders. China’s former commerce minister, Chen Deming, said at one panel that if Beijing were to make concessions in the auto sector, it should ask Washington for similar concessions in return, said people familiar with the discussions.

China’s new central banker Yi Gang, for instance, announced that foreign ownership caps on securities and life-insurance companies, which are currently being raised to 51% from 49%, would be abolished in three years. But the Trump administration and foreign companies don’t think that would help much because Chinese institutions now dominate the domestic securities and insurance markets. They seek immediate elimination of ownership caps.

Mr. Yi wouldn’t go that far. “The Chinese philosophy is gradualism,” he said.

Both sides are gearing up for a lengthy fight. When Mr. Trump
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, many trade experts dismissed it as simply talk. But officials said that it had been discussed earlier with U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and White House trade adviser Peter Navarro, among others.


According to the Trump White House, the U.S. had been judicious in its initial threat of tariffs on $50 billion in Chinese goods, which equals about 10% of Chinese merchandise exports to the U.S. of $506 billion. China quickly retaliated with its own $50 billion threat, but that equals 38% of the U.S.’s $130 billion in exports to China. The additional $100 billion in goods targeted for retaliation was meant to even the score—about 30% of China’s goods exports would be subject to tariffs, U.S. officials said. China said it would retaliate for these levies too but wasn’t specific.

To try to limit domestic opposition to its tough line, the administration now is working on a program, which could cost billions of dollars, to compensate farmers suffering from Chinese retaliatory tariffs on U.S. crops. Mr. Trump also said he would consider joining a reconstituted Trans-Pacific Partnership, a trade group of 11 Pacific Rim nations, including Japan, which could give the U.S. additional leverage in any talks with China.

For its part, China is looking to line up other countries against the U.S. An editorial in the official People’s Daily after President Xi’s speech noted that new openings wouldn’t be applicable to countries that “wage trade wars.” Mr. Yi, the central banker, also said on Wednesday that a stock-trading link between Shanghai and London would be launched by the end of this year.

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Xi Jinping's remarks at Boao were not at all conciliatory. They were merely a restatement of China's commitment to further open up sectors of its economy. The White House is grossly misreading Chinese intentions and underestimating Chinese resolve. There is no way bilateral talks can resume if the Trump administration continues along this path.
 

ahho

Junior Member
All this year, the world kept saying China is a developing country, but now, once a trade dispute occur, America want China to act like a developed countries in one of its speeches.

Just like how the world kept saying China is polluting the world with its recycling facility, but when it stop accepting foreign garbage, the world now have to wake up and find way to deal with their own garbage
 
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Quickie

Colonel
Trump and his advisers think that it's easy to win trade wars with China because of the big deficit and China not having enough ammunition. The only problem is the irony that the deficit may not be really that big (giving America more ammunition) when the amount of profits American companies makes in China is taken into account.



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In Trade Spat, China Has a Secret Weapon

American companies could face a popular backlash.
By
Michael Schuman

19
April 13, 2018, 5:00 AM GMT+8
1000x-1.jpg

Watch out.

Photographer: Peter Parks/AFP
Markets are quivering as fears of a U.S.-China trade war ebb and flow. Thus far, they've mostly been focused on tariffs that President Donald Trump wants to impose on a range of Chinese goods, and China's threats to retaliate. But investors may be overlooking a bigger risk in this dispute.



It's true that duties on U.S. imports would hurt -- hands are already
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in farm country -- but there's a limit to how much pain they can really inflict. The persistent worry that China will dump its mammoth
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of Treasury bills is probably unfounded as well.



The risks for U.S. firms already operating in China, however, could be significant. Here Beijing can stab at the soft underbelly of a wide range of American companies, from Apple Inc. to General Motors Co. to Starbucks Corp. Although these companies have well-established brands, sizable businesses, and strong connections to Chinese consumers, they could still face serious harm if Beijing wants to turn up the heat on Trump.




In some cases, such as automobiles, these companies have been effectively forced to produce locally by China's trade policies. In others, the nature of the business makes it necessary to be close to Chinese consumers. Whatever the reason, tariffs will have a minimal impact on many of these U.S. operations.



GM offers a good example. It has imported a mere 150 Camaros from the U.S. into China this year; the rest of the cars it and its partners have sold --
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in the first quarter alone -- were manufactured on the ground. If China really wanted to pressure a company like GM, it would have to resort to methods other than import barriers.

What might that look like? For one thing, bureaucrats wield tremendous control over the life and death of companies in China. Holding up the dizzying array of permits and licenses required of businesses would be one way to slow the expansion of American competitors in the Chinese market.

A more powerful -- and potentially devastating -- weapon would be a boycott of U.S. products. Beijing has used such campaigns in past disputes, sometimes with catastrophic consequences.

Six years ago, amid rising tensions with Japan over a batch of disputed islands, China used state media to rile up
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, who attacked Japanese cars and businesses. Sales of Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans all
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as a result.

More recently, China tried to pressure South Korea into ditching a U.S. missile-defense system that Beijing perceived as a threat. It
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K-pop stars from the mainland, Chinese firms boycotted Korean products, and Korean businesses
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under the strain. In 2015, Hyundai Motor Co. was the third-most popular passenger vehicle brand in China, with 5 percent of the market; last year, its share had slipped to 3.1 percent, ranking Hyundai 11th, according to LMC Automotive.

You might argue that pressuring U.S. companies in this manner could backfire. After all, those companies employ a ton of people: GM (including its joint ventures) has 58,000 workers in China. But Beijing has previously shown that it's willing to absorb such costs to meet its strategic goals. Amid the anti-Korea campaign, Kia Motors Corp.
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the working hours and pay of its Chinese employees as sales sunk.

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in U.S.-China trade, however, there's a limit to how much Beijing can match Trump's tactics with tariffs alone. There are only so many American imports to tax. If (or when) the authorities choose to go after U.S. companies in China, they can whip up protests and boycotts at the drop of a Nike cap.

The fallout could be significant, and should seriously concern American executives. Imagine what would happen to GM if its sales in China -- which represent more than
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of its total -- fell in similar proportion to Toyota's in 2012. Or if Starbucks, which is opening a new store in China
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, saw its coffee shops ransacked by protesters.

Hopefully, things won't degenerate to that point. But in their apparent naivete, Trump and his advisers have stumbled into a wresting match with an authoritarian state capable of rallying far more public support for its positions than Trump could in a divided, democratic America. That's what investors should really worry about.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
a scenario analysis on the China-US trade war, the financial front

in the tit for tat trade war, China will soon run out cards, so it may resort to its last weapon, the US treasury.

how much damage a sell down can do to the US financial market? actaully the impact is straight forward, because there's a one to one correspondence between the treasury price and the interest, interest is the inverse of bond price, that is:

1/P=R=1+r

China holds about 10% of the US treasury in circulation, if China dumps the treasury, a 20% nominal loss will push up the10-year treasury interest by 2%, and the 5-year interest by 4%, it's as simple as that. if America can stand a 2-4% interest hike in one go, that's Trump's business.

selling the treasury will get the dollar, that's no reason for China to swap one US paper for another, China will dump the dollar on the Forex market, that's the double-whammy.

the US cannot live without the international market, it need to raise a trillion every year to finance its deficit.
 
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now I read
Spotlight: U.S. tariff moves expose lack of confidence in globalized world
Xinhua| 2018-04-13 14:32:16
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The U.S. unilateralist and protectionist moves to propose steep tariffs on Chinese imports expose the super power's lack of confidence in the more globalized world, especially when facing China's growing international role, said analysts.

The world's two largest countries are developing in different directions, experts said, with China becoming more open and pursuing fairness, while the United States has become more self-preserving and anti-globalization.

UNILATERALIST APPROACH AGAINST MULTILATERAL REGIME

Amid domestic and overseas opposition, the Trump administration has threatened to slap additional duties on Chinese goods worth 100 billion dollars, after proposing steep tariffs on Chinese imports worth 50 billion U.S. dollars.

The U.S. unilaterally proposed steep tariffs on China's goods undermine a rule-based multilateral trade regime, which has been crucial for global growth, said Nobel Prize-winning American economist Joseph Stiglitz.

The U.S. unilateral approach will be a step backward for globalization and cause unbearable outcomes, said former Chinese Commerce Minister Chen Deming at the just concluded Boao Forum for Asia (BFA) annual conference.

Joaquin Infante, the winner of Cuba's national economic prize, told Xinhua recently in an interview that the U.S. contempt for multilateral organizations, such as the United Nations and the World Trade Organization, aims to return to the decades when the United States showed off its economic supremacy.

Jon R. Taylor, a political science professor at the University of St. Thomas in Houston, Texas, agreed with him, saying: "These tariffs that have targeted China confirm that the Trump administration intends to bypass the WTO's dispute settlement body and unilaterally rely on U.S. law alone regarding the ongoing trade dispute with China."

Klaus Wohlrabe, economist at Ifo economic institute based in Munich, Germany, said the U.S. unilateral moves would severely harm the multilateral mechanism under the framework of the WTO.

NO WINNER FOR ALL

The U.S. willful moves to propose steep tariffs on Chinese imports would have a negative impact not just on China and the United States, but also on the global economy, analysts believe.

Kiyoyuki Seguchi, research director of Canon Institute for Global Strategy Studies said in a written interview that in the short term, the protectionism has some positive effects on its domestic industries and brings some benefits, such as increasing employment.

In the medium and long term, protectionism will weaken the U.S. competitiveness and have negative effects on domestic consumers and enterprises, he wrote.

Martin Wansleben, chief executive of the Association of German Chambers of Commerce and Industry, said Trump administration's disregard of international rules and regulations against the backdrop of closely interconnected global economy will lead to no winners, adding Germany and the European Union will be affected finally.

Francis Gurry, director-general of World Intellectual Property Organization, said "technology and production are all globalized" and "the global value chain will be affected by even a dispute between two parties as many other parties are also involved in the chain."

WHERE TO GO?

China has hit back against the U.S. unilateral moves proportionally by rolling out its retaliatory tariff plan.

"China was forced to take the action to fight back. There's no way for China to back off," said Ruan Zongze, executive vice president and senior research fellow of the China Institute of International Studies.

"China has to defend its legitimate interests as well as the global multilateral trade regime," Ruan said.

Oxford Economics, a leader in global forecasting and quantitative analysis based in Oxford, Britain, believes that China's reaction is a kind of tactic aiming only to encourage Washington to start talks to reduce the risk of a potential full-scale trade war.

Andras Inotai, research professor at the Hungarian Academy of Science's Institute of World Economics, described the U.S. tariffs move as a "own-goal," saying a sound solution to any trade dispute should be filed at the WTO.

Lawrence Loh, director of Centre for Governance, Institutions and Organizations at the Business School at the National University of Singapore, said: "The United States may actually shoot itself in the foot and risk losing global economic leadership."

"Constructive dialogues should take place to iron out whatever issues that might be bothering either the U.S. or China," he said.
 

hkbc

Junior Member
"God created war so Americans would have a reason to learn geography but they don't because Americans never learn" would be more accurate, I think. I'm willing to bet the Americans who can point to Iraq and Afghanistan on an unlabeled atlas are in the minority.

That's a little unfair, despite best propaganda efforts, Americans die like the rest of us, although, apparently, they all go to heaven while the rest of us rot in hell. There's always new generations that need to learn! Non of your liberal, expert, swamp infested, fakery here please :rolleyes:

As there are sections of the American population that tend to pass on the more "important" things in life like 'Manifest Destiny, God, right to bear arms, liberty, freedom, immigrant bashing, lock her up, tiki torches blah blah blah" rather than godless things like science (global warming and evolution what's that all about!) to their offspring. So where would a mere social science like geography figure on the spectrum it's almost a liberal art....... This all seems to be another 'structural' issue, a bit like wanting sky high wages, not saving any of it but demanding to buy things really cheaply which must be made by the people demanding sky high wages, then threaten a trade war when you don't get it!

I think the US via it's various "military outreach programs" (aka wars and occupation) enables tens of thousands of otherwise deprived american youths to see the world engage in some of their favourite past times (shooting at things and checking out (female) talent ) without having to pay for their travel or in war zones even the need to apply for a passport, all this in order to address the short comings in basic education!

Although some of the countries where these 'field trips' have occurred seem to be suffering from social and economic issues as a result, its not a US problem, but a local issue after all the USA is not in the business of nation building!

Meanwhile the rest of world on the whole tends to make do with classrooms, maps and teachers and tend to pass those liberal expert tests of pointing correctly to countries on a map which you mention, but that's American exceptionalism for you!

To borrow yet another quaint Americanism

'The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.' - Thomas Jefferson

I guess in a section of the American psyche it goes beyond 'trees of liberty' to also apply to geography and perhaps the educational experience as a whole!

IMHO you have to worry when satire sounds like real life!!
 
now I read
Spotlight: Chinese firms want level playing field in U.S.
Xinhua| 2018-04-13 16:52:47
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The United States must avoid overusing national security review plea and ensure a level playing field and a predictable environment for Chinese enterprises investment in the country, experts said here on Thursday.

"It's not a choice between national security and economic development, we can have both," said Daniel Rosen, a founding partner of the New York-based research consultancy and advisory company Rhodium Group, adding that "is an entirely false notion that we have to make a choice between the two of them."

Chinese direct investment in the United States plummeted from 46.5 billion U.S. dollars in 2016 to 29.7 billion dollars in 2017, said Rosen at a panel discussion at the Harvard Club in New York City, quoting a report recently released by Rhodium Group.

The decline was partly because that the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), a multi-agency panel that reviews foreign purchases of American companies, has broadened its approach to reviewing Chinese investments.

The panel chaired by U.S. Treasury Department vets deals that could give a foreign investor control of a U.S. business for national security risks. It has been increasingly aggressive under the administration of President Donald Trump.

An unprecedented number of Chinese deals were delayed or abandoned last year as parties failed to obtain approval from the CFIUS, according to the Rhodium report.

"We have a big pipeline to acquire more U.S. companies" but only watch a little bit right now, said Yuan Ning, president of China Construction America, who was also on the panel.

Ni Pin, president of Wanxiang America Corporation, the Chicago-based arm of Wanxiang Group Company, called for "more professional, less political" CFIUS review of merger and acquisition deals between American and Chinese enterprises.

"It's very confusing coming to the United States," Ni said of the different treatment he received at the federal and state governments. "When you go to Washington D.C., you feel a lot of pressure ... they always question your motivation. Back to your own state, your governor is your best friend, he knows your wife's birthday more than you do, your kids birthday, whatever."

As a matter of fact, more and more U.S. state governors are looking towards China for an international solution to local economic problems and unemployment, said Scott Pattison, executive director and CEO of U.S. National Governors Association.

"We can double, triple and quadruple the vigor of security screening, looking for legitimate problems, and still have room to go so far beyond the 46 billion dollar watermark between the two largest economies," Rosen said.

"The real problem to getting there, it is not (that) we have to compromise national security, it is making sure that we are all confident that we are on a convergent path together, China and the United States, both of them head to the same direction as economies, in the future."

"The fundamental issue is not the nature of our two countries, it's more of communication," said Ni.

The panel discussion is part of the China Institute 2018 Executive Summit "U.S.-China Business in the New World Order," which brought together hundreds of top U.S. and Chinese CEOs, government leaders, and experts to examine challenges and opportunities in the changing business relations between the two largest economies in the world.

Founded in 1926, China Institute is the oldest bicultural, non-profit organization in America to focus exclusively on China.
 
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