What "adversity" has the US ever faced? It's the most pampered nation that has ever existed.
Trade War with China
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The US will survive and quite possibly prosper. I don't doubt that. The problem is, the policy makers now truly believe protectionism is for the better of the country. We don't really know how well this will end up but it's safe to say that economic relations between the two nations are strained more so now than before. US is a democracy and its decisions re China will always be dependent on the political figures. Both sides will suffer a bit in terms of some unemployment and a little inflation that'll hit in a few months. Beyond that, Trump will be elected out of office in a few years and we may see a slow reversal of this tension.
On the topic of intellectual property and technology theft. It is too little too late for the US to really stop China's tech advances now. Obviously China's greatly benefited from practices which hold foreign corporations hostage in terms of surrendering IP and tech know-how. No sensible, forward thinking nation on Earth with the resources and talent to learn from, copy, and reverse engineer foreign tech, would ever give up that opportunity. China's just been doing this for half a century. Japan's been doing it for longer and in some areas they still continue to copy the ones who lead. In time, China will no longer need to copy. 200 years is not even a blink of an eye in terms of recorded human civilisation. To be so arrogant as to suggest that Chinese are somehow incapable of innovating, creating, etc etc, (for whatever reason) is insanely stupid and not a single intelligent, knowledgeable person would even begin to entertain that idea (at least I haven't found one). If the US wants to complain about this being unfair, they have a right to and it isn't even an unfounded grievance. Perhaps they will find effective ways of stopping this without suffering any serious long term economic damage. I just can't think of one where it would work smoothly. I don't even know which US companies are leaking technology or have had technology stolen. Let's begin with that and go from there because this seems to be where all the conflict is at least here on this site. Everyone knows trade tariffs just for imbalance isn't an effective economic policy for the short to medium run at least. Who knows, maybe these people and their supporters will "make America great again". We shall see about that one. It won't hurt China much that's for sure. There are growing markets all around the world with declining American consumer dominance. That alone is enough for China to ride out some of the bumps in the next few years or decades. Beyond this, China is already moving into more services, technology, and even new technology. There are countless emerging technologies that will revolutionise the world on a scale never seen before. Our time is ripe with opportunity anyway. A time for manufacturing cheap disposable consumer products will be over soon anyway with peak oil and growing environmental concerns.
On the topic of intellectual property and technology theft. It is too little too late for the US to really stop China's tech advances now. Obviously China's greatly benefited from practices which hold foreign corporations hostage in terms of surrendering IP and tech know-how. No sensible, forward thinking nation on Earth with the resources and talent to learn from, copy, and reverse engineer foreign tech, would ever give up that opportunity. China's just been doing this for half a century. Japan's been doing it for longer and in some areas they still continue to copy the ones who lead. In time, China will no longer need to copy. 200 years is not even a blink of an eye in terms of recorded human civilisation. To be so arrogant as to suggest that Chinese are somehow incapable of innovating, creating, etc etc, (for whatever reason) is insanely stupid and not a single intelligent, knowledgeable person would even begin to entertain that idea (at least I haven't found one). If the US wants to complain about this being unfair, they have a right to and it isn't even an unfounded grievance. Perhaps they will find effective ways of stopping this without suffering any serious long term economic damage. I just can't think of one where it would work smoothly. I don't even know which US companies are leaking technology or have had technology stolen. Let's begin with that and go from there because this seems to be where all the conflict is at least here on this site. Everyone knows trade tariffs just for imbalance isn't an effective economic policy for the short to medium run at least. Who knows, maybe these people and their supporters will "make America great again". We shall see about that one. It won't hurt China much that's for sure. There are growing markets all around the world with declining American consumer dominance. That alone is enough for China to ride out some of the bumps in the next few years or decades. Beyond this, China is already moving into more services, technology, and even new technology. There are countless emerging technologies that will revolutionise the world on a scale never seen before. Our time is ripe with opportunity anyway. A time for manufacturing cheap disposable consumer products will be over soon anyway with peak oil and growing environmental concerns.
Jura The idiot
General
solarz
Brigadier
I think Jack Ma said it best. If the US-China trade has been so unfair, why are American companies the biggest beneficiaries of globalization? Companies like Apple and Google make far more money than any Chinese company could hope for.
The difference is that while the living standards of the Chinese middle class has dramatically improved in the last 30 years, the American middle class has instead been slowly eroding.
You ascribe this difference to IP and tariff issues. That's like blaming a mouse for crowding when an elephant is standing right next to you. For the past 20 years, the US has spent $6 trillion dollars on wars. Meanwhile, China has been busy building roads, ships, high speed rails, and even entire cities. While the Chinese citizenry is reaping the benefits of better housing, faster travel, and a more connected economy, American taxpayers have been shouldering the burden of fighting wars that didn't concern them and of supporting the thousands of veterans who come home emotionally or physically damaged.
Jura The idiot
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Jura The idiot
General
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Interesting article narrowing the trade gap is possible, easier access to Chinese market is also possible But halting Chinese industry advances like "Made in China 2025" is a pipe dream that will never be realized
Via Emperror
China Talks Stalled Over Trump’s Demands on High-Tech Industries, Source Says
2018年4月10日 下午3:59 [GMT+8] Updated on 2018年4月10日 下午11:21 [GMT+8]
Liu He said Xi was ready to fight back in trade war: Person
China had proposed cutting deficit by $50 billion: Person
Trade talks between the world’s biggest economies broke down last week after the Trump administration demanded that China curtail support for high-technology industries, a person familiar with the situation said, signaling that a resolution may be some ways off.
Liu He, a vice premier overseeing economics and finance, told a group of officials Thursday that Beijing had rejected a U.S. request to stop subsidizing industries related to its “Made in China 2025” initiative, the person said. The U.S. has accused China of using the policy to force companies into transferring technology in areas like robotics, aerospace and artificial intelligence.
The U.S. demands came after Beijing offered to narrow the trade deficit by $50 billion, including by importing more liquefied natural gas, agricultural products, semiconductors and luxury goods, according to the person. The plans also included opening the financial sector at a faster rate and giving U.S. companies more access to China’s booming e-commerce market, the person added.
Liu said President Xi Jinping was ready to fight back hard if U.S. counterpart Donald Trump wanted a trade war, said the person, who asked for anonymity to speak about confidential discussions. China was open to talks with the U.S., but wouldn’t initiate them under the current conditions, the person said, citing Liu.
The dust-up suggests that the trade dispute won’t be resolved quickly, despite Trump’s optimistic tweets and Xi’s conciliatory address to a regional economic forum Tuesday. In recent days, Chinese officials have expressed increased frustration with the U.S., with the foreign ministry on Monday calling talks “impossible” under current conditions.
A senior White House trade adviser on Tuesday said the U.S. is moving in a “measured” way through the process of evaluating whether to follow through with the tariffs on Chinese products. The tariffs proposal is still in a 60-day period for public input and the U.S. Treasury is preparing recommended curbs on Chinese investment due by late May.
“There are doors to discussions, and we are having those,” Peter Navarro, White House director of trade and industrial policy, said in an interview with National Public Radio. The U.S. wants a rebalancing of trade flows between the two countries, and for China to stop “stealing” American intellectual property, he said.
On Monday, Trump signaled that a deal with China was within reach, saying his administration would “probably” resolve a dispute that has roiled financial markets and raised fears of a major clash between the world’s biggest economies. Xi’s speech Tuesday lifted stocks in Asia and U.S. equity futures.
China’s Xi Pledges Greater Openness Amid Trump Trade Dispute
At the Boao Xi pledged a “new phase of opening up.” He reiterated plans to allow more foreign participation in sectors like automobile manufacturing and banking, and said China would strengthen measures to protect intellectual property rights.
Xi also called on countries to export high-technology goods to China, which has been a point of contention with the U.S. A commentary in the official People’s Daily after the speech said Beijing would never open at the expense of its interests -- a signal that it would continue supporting “Made in China 2025.”
Technology Transfer
A White House official who watched Xi’s speech welcomed his remarks on intellectual property while saying that actions speak louder than words. Trump’s administration was unified in the view that U.S. jobs were endangered by what it called China’s forced technology transfers and state-directed intellectual property theft, the official said.
The State Council Information Office, which represents China’s central government, didn’t reply to faxed questions Monday on U.S. trade talks. The White House had no comment on specifics of the discussions, but an administration official said China should change its behavior and take action to change the trajectory of its trading relationship with the U.S.
What our economists say...
“The U.S. side will likely want to see deeds, not just words, before it considers softening its protectionist stance,” Bloomberg Economics Chief Asia Economist Tom Orlik wrote in a note. “Even so, with Xi’s speech positioning China as conciliatory, the chances of a damaging trade war appear a shade lower.”
The remarks by Liu -- who visited Washington in February and is taking the lead on the government’s response to Trump’s trade moves -- suggest the dispute won’t be resolved easily. The meeting was held before Trump instructed officials to consider tariffs on an additional $100 billion in Chinese imports, bringing the value of the nation’s products set for higher duties to about $150 billion. The U.S.’s bilateral trade deficit was $375 billion last year.
‘Big Stick’
China vowed a harsh response to Trump’s latest threat, helping to spur a selloff that prompted the S&P 500 Index to fall 2.2 percent last Friday. Geng Shuang, a foreign ministry spokesman, said Monday that it was “even more impossible” for trade talks to take place under the current environment.
“This trade conflict was initiated by the U.S. alone and it is entirely the one to blame,” he said. “The U.S. is wielding the big stick of trade sanctions while keeping saying they are willing to talk. I am not sure who the U.S. is putting on such acts for.”
China is considering offering major concessions on trade and investment to the European Union and countries such as Japan and Mexico, the person said.
In his remarks, Xi sought to calm any U.S. fears that China aimed to challenge its supremacy. Trump’s administration last year labeled both China and Russia “rival powers.”
“Regardless of the extent of development, China will not subvert the current international system, nor will it seek to establish spheres of influence,” Xi said. “China has always been a builder of world peace, a contributor to global development, and a defender of the international order.”
— With assistance by Debra Mao, Jennifer Jacobs, Andrew Mayeda, and Saleha Mohsin
Via Emperror
China Talks Stalled Over Trump’s Demands on High-Tech Industries, Source Says
2018年4月10日 下午3:59 [GMT+8] Updated on 2018年4月10日 下午11:21 [GMT+8]
Liu He said Xi was ready to fight back in trade war: Person
China had proposed cutting deficit by $50 billion: Person
Trade talks between the world’s biggest economies broke down last week after the Trump administration demanded that China curtail support for high-technology industries, a person familiar with the situation said, signaling that a resolution may be some ways off.
Liu He, a vice premier overseeing economics and finance, told a group of officials Thursday that Beijing had rejected a U.S. request to stop subsidizing industries related to its “Made in China 2025” initiative, the person said. The U.S. has accused China of using the policy to force companies into transferring technology in areas like robotics, aerospace and artificial intelligence.
The U.S. demands came after Beijing offered to narrow the trade deficit by $50 billion, including by importing more liquefied natural gas, agricultural products, semiconductors and luxury goods, according to the person. The plans also included opening the financial sector at a faster rate and giving U.S. companies more access to China’s booming e-commerce market, the person added.
Liu said President Xi Jinping was ready to fight back hard if U.S. counterpart Donald Trump wanted a trade war, said the person, who asked for anonymity to speak about confidential discussions. China was open to talks with the U.S., but wouldn’t initiate them under the current conditions, the person said, citing Liu.
The dust-up suggests that the trade dispute won’t be resolved quickly, despite Trump’s optimistic tweets and Xi’s conciliatory address to a regional economic forum Tuesday. In recent days, Chinese officials have expressed increased frustration with the U.S., with the foreign ministry on Monday calling talks “impossible” under current conditions.
A senior White House trade adviser on Tuesday said the U.S. is moving in a “measured” way through the process of evaluating whether to follow through with the tariffs on Chinese products. The tariffs proposal is still in a 60-day period for public input and the U.S. Treasury is preparing recommended curbs on Chinese investment due by late May.
“There are doors to discussions, and we are having those,” Peter Navarro, White House director of trade and industrial policy, said in an interview with National Public Radio. The U.S. wants a rebalancing of trade flows between the two countries, and for China to stop “stealing” American intellectual property, he said.
On Monday, Trump signaled that a deal with China was within reach, saying his administration would “probably” resolve a dispute that has roiled financial markets and raised fears of a major clash between the world’s biggest economies. Xi’s speech Tuesday lifted stocks in Asia and U.S. equity futures.
China’s Xi Pledges Greater Openness Amid Trump Trade Dispute
At the Boao Xi pledged a “new phase of opening up.” He reiterated plans to allow more foreign participation in sectors like automobile manufacturing and banking, and said China would strengthen measures to protect intellectual property rights.
Xi also called on countries to export high-technology goods to China, which has been a point of contention with the U.S. A commentary in the official People’s Daily after the speech said Beijing would never open at the expense of its interests -- a signal that it would continue supporting “Made in China 2025.”
Technology Transfer
A White House official who watched Xi’s speech welcomed his remarks on intellectual property while saying that actions speak louder than words. Trump’s administration was unified in the view that U.S. jobs were endangered by what it called China’s forced technology transfers and state-directed intellectual property theft, the official said.
The State Council Information Office, which represents China’s central government, didn’t reply to faxed questions Monday on U.S. trade talks. The White House had no comment on specifics of the discussions, but an administration official said China should change its behavior and take action to change the trajectory of its trading relationship with the U.S.
What our economists say...
“The U.S. side will likely want to see deeds, not just words, before it considers softening its protectionist stance,” Bloomberg Economics Chief Asia Economist Tom Orlik wrote in a note. “Even so, with Xi’s speech positioning China as conciliatory, the chances of a damaging trade war appear a shade lower.”
The remarks by Liu -- who visited Washington in February and is taking the lead on the government’s response to Trump’s trade moves -- suggest the dispute won’t be resolved easily. The meeting was held before Trump instructed officials to consider tariffs on an additional $100 billion in Chinese imports, bringing the value of the nation’s products set for higher duties to about $150 billion. The U.S.’s bilateral trade deficit was $375 billion last year.
‘Big Stick’
China vowed a harsh response to Trump’s latest threat, helping to spur a selloff that prompted the S&P 500 Index to fall 2.2 percent last Friday. Geng Shuang, a foreign ministry spokesman, said Monday that it was “even more impossible” for trade talks to take place under the current environment.
“This trade conflict was initiated by the U.S. alone and it is entirely the one to blame,” he said. “The U.S. is wielding the big stick of trade sanctions while keeping saying they are willing to talk. I am not sure who the U.S. is putting on such acts for.”
China is considering offering major concessions on trade and investment to the European Union and countries such as Japan and Mexico, the person said.
In his remarks, Xi sought to calm any U.S. fears that China aimed to challenge its supremacy. Trump’s administration last year labeled both China and Russia “rival powers.”
“Regardless of the extent of development, China will not subvert the current international system, nor will it seek to establish spheres of influence,” Xi said. “China has always been a builder of world peace, a contributor to global development, and a defender of the international order.”
— With assistance by Debra Mao, Jennifer Jacobs, Andrew Mayeda, and Saleha Mohsin
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Questioning whether or not I'm American is irrelevant. You brought that up because you need to discredit me because you think being American is more trustworthy. Ergo anyone who isn't American is untrustworthy. And what did I just do but show "Americans" lie. And that's why you were disturbed with my post to bother complaining about it. You do know that lying and being trustworthy are contradictions? You want me not to bring up a lie by an American so people continue to think Americans don't lie. I bet you also think you're honorable because you're an American. Is it honorable to help cover-up a lie? You complain about me exposing the truth yet protect the liar.
Another contradiction is believing in rights and thinking you can police thoughts. You can't counter what I said so instead you're trying intimidating me into shutting up by charging I'm not American? Because true Americans will lie to cover-up when Americans are wrong, right?
this goes to the heart of the trade tension. the US sees China developing its own high tech as a threat, it demands China to curtail it.
no transfer of tech, and development of your own not allowed, they want China to be the largest banana republic on earth. it's so blatant and brazen.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
If the roles were reverse Americans would be calling for war if a non-Western country was demanding Americans stifle advancement just so Americans are kept dependent on foreigners. And don't forget the US/West wouldn't sell technology to China it can't produce itself. What's DARPA if not the US government helping to develop technologies for US industries? And Westerners wonder why there are people who just don't want to sign their soul away to them. The US wouldn't accept those terms so why would anyone else.
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